RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line
Paul, I am asking $50.00 each. If they are getting ringing and distortion they are hooking it incorrectly. Paul -Original Message- From: ac0y5 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 10:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line Paul, what do thoes animals go for these days? When we converted our paging system to simulcast we put thoes in the Quintron stations and some into Micor stations for the delay for simulcasting. 73 Paul AC0Y --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, if anyone needs some let me know, I have several. Paul -Original Message- From: Lee Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 8:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Delay Line Power? It doesnt require any power. Its a delay line,no active components! We had huindreds of these on paging stations back in the day,they were quite expensive. 73,Lee - Original Message - From: Dave Stephens To: Repeater-Builder Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 9:40 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Delay Line Hello all, I got a Micor Lo-Band Paging transmitter and I found an interesting item within. It is a delay line made by Allen Avionics. below are links to the front and back images I took of it. http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/thebasement/images/delayfront.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/thebasement/images/delayback.jpg what I want to know is (because I have now manuals on this micor) how does it work? all I see is an audio in and an audio out on the thing. there are no power connections. and the thing is completely sealed. Is the power fed in with the audio lines? Dave Stephens KF6WJA Santa Clarita Amateur Radio Club www.W6JW.org Vice-President - Webmaster - Newsletter Editor Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line
I agree,they arent the best delay solution. We were never happy with their performance,audio sounded phase distorted and limited response. They were replaced with Glenayre's with digital delay cards that worked much better. Old technology vs new...73,Lee,N3APP - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo WN3A [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line Worked very well as long as the microwave hops to the site didn't have too much group delay. Those Allen Avionics analog delay lines have horrible group delay, distortion/ringing, and frequency response abberations. I've put them on my HP 8903 audio analyzer and decided they weren't going to be worthwhile for my simulcast repeater project. You can tweak their performance them to some degree by tailoring both the source and load Z depending on the delay setting but I never found a combination that I was thrilled with. I've got several GE Delta-S radios on the air as exciters that I modified for use with an external GPS reference oscillator. Right now they're on the air as a sloppycast system with no audio delay correction. Someday when I have more time (yeah, right) I want to work on a digital delay solution. For now, lacking audio delay, the repeaters that are being sloppycasted are far enough apart that the distortion in areas where there is a little overlap is noticible but not unbearable. How well did the voice simulcast system work with the AA delay lines? How bad was the audio in the areas with common coverage? I've heard voice paging on Micor PURC simulcast systems and always though it sounded horrible... --- Jeff - Jeff DePolo WN3A Broadcast and Communications Consultant Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line
The original application was a tone and voice paging system. You'd have to know what this delay line was orignally spec for. I have two different models. I found the datasheets for both and they were spec'ed for something like 300-2800 Hz frequency response at something like +/- 3 dB. There were no specs for distortion or group delay/phase distortion. Nice, but one must start with the initial system preformance and align it right. Most people don't know how to properly align simulcast systems. I know the prerequisites for both RF and audio performance, including the potential benefits of staggered frequency offsets, optimization for the worst overlap area(s) versus simple geographic distance/time delay, maintaining consistant frequency response and proper AF bandwidth limiting, minimizing receiver IF distortion/group delay, etc. I'm not saying what I have on the air right now, without audio delay, is correct...I was just saying that the transmitters are still on the air GPS-locked, the packages are all built identically (with well-tuned IF's on the link receivers listening to the same outbound source transmitter, transmitter AF mods, etc.) but I haven't dealt with the audio delay issues yet. Probably sounds rough in areas with overlap. It's not great, but it's not terrible. Fortunately the sites are within a few miles' difference in distance from the origination point so the delay error is only a few tens of ms. It sounds a bit watery in the worst overlap areas where both signals are relatively weak and compete with each other by probably only a few dB. In areas where there is a bigger delta in signal strengths the effect is obviously much less noticible due to capture. Still sounds better than Nextel anyway :-) S-Comm makes a killer digital delay board that's really cheap (cost wise) with excellent preformance. The resolution in the delay settings is way too coarse though. The old BBD devices theoretically could provide the resolution needed, but they have inherent drawbacks on their own, let alone the time delay stability issues. Better digital delays are available from Simulcast Solutions and others. You could not tell it was a simulcast system, other than it was loud in all places and sounded great. Sounds like it worked better than many of the systems that have been installed within the last few years on 800 MHz around here... Then something was not done right. Every one of them should sound good, else its back to the drawing board. I think the intentional frequency offets that were done to improve digital paging worked against them when sending voice pages. What is best for FEC and minimizing inter-symbol interference for simulcast digital paging isn't necessarily the most pleasant-sounding when sending voice pages...it may have been a tradeoff. --- Jeff Jeff DePolo WN3A - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Broadcast and Communications Consultant Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Delay Line
On Tuesday, Dec 16, 2003, at 14:46 America/Denver, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: S-Comm makes a killer digital delay board that's really cheap (cost wise) with excellent preformance. If you have an older controller with an audio delay board, you can diddle it, but it won't stay on long term. You'd have to reset it every x-months/weeks. You need one less number of delays than transmitters you have on the air. Bob sold the rights to the digital delay board to another company quite some time ago now. S-Com no longer sells them. ICS does. http://www.scomcontrollers.com/3rdparty.shtml http://www.ics-ctrl.com/dadm/dsdadm.html Nate Duehr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
