[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
I don't know a thing about that voter. Maybe someone will chime in here. My voter will do tone signaling so I'm ok with the 7x24 keyed down link transmitter. In fact I think it's probably the way to go. It's just that it requires something with the duty cycle to handle it and I'm looking for recommendations of a radio to do the job. Maybe a Mitrek on 420 or maybe a microwave radio. Any comments? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ross Johnson kc7...@... wrote: I'm in the exact same boat working on a remote receiver. I don't want the link keyed 24-7 either. I now there are some voters out there that don't require 1950hz and some that don't need it present 100% of the time to keep that voter port active. But are there any other voters in the used or DIY market that's in the HAM budget. That do not require the 1950hz tone at all. Here one I found on RB but I will need eventually 3 ports. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/wb2whc.html Can one more port be added and has anyone had good success with this unit? Thanks All, Ross kc7rjk -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim - WD6AWP Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 3:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Recommendations for a Voter Link I'm going to start working on building a link for a remote receiver. I already have a voter and I'll be using a VHF Micor receiver strip for the remote. A couple of mobiles that tune down to 420 might be good as I don't have a lot room. I'm thinking the link transmitter will be keyed 7x24 with tone signaling. However the duty cycle requirement is a problem for mobiles. A microwave system might be possible if I knew what and where to get. Wireline is probably out. I'd like to hear your ideas on how to put this together. Thanks, Tim P.S. Sorry if this post is a dup. The first one did seem to come through this morning.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
Mike Morris wa6...@... wrote: The idle marker tone system was designed for wire-lines and adapted to microwave shots. Also known as Status Tone But there are ways around it. The simple method: Have a local 1950 oscillator at the voter site. It can be done with a 88mh toroid, a few resistors and caps, and a single transistor. Can't think of the last time I saw an 88mh Toroid for sale in any obvious location but I'm sure they're out there somewhere like Ebay. I found some of the newer one-chip GE Status Tone Encoders on Ebay a few months back and they were cheaper than I could have easily built them for. Have a SPDT reed relay driven by the link receiver RUS (or COR). Links can be on 420Mhz, 438-439Mhz, 900Mhz, or 1200 Mhz. ... and if you're creative some other places. The NC contact on the relay has 1950hz. NO contact has link receiver audio. Armature feeds voter card audio input. When channel is idle, card sees 1950hz and is happy. When channel is unsquelched card sees link receiver audio and votes. Wonder if the relay pole contact transition time contributes to any type of glitch, hunt, delay or erratic event that might otherwise not be there if you simply (resistance as an example) mixed and removed the Status Tone? Reed relays last a long time - I've had used ones last 12 years, and new ones last 20, but you can use CMOS audio switches if you want. CD4053 and use the diagram from an ACC RC-85 Repeater Controller as your basic guide. The GE voter performance has the Doug Hall beat hands down. The GE and Motorola Spectra Tac Voters are true Signal-To-Noise Voters, where as the LDG, earlier Doug Hall and the ARRL 2-Channel voters are not. I haven't seen a current Hall Voter Close up to determine if it's a real SN Voter but the earlier Hall versions I have like the LDG are not (true SN voters). True SN Voters don't seem to be nearly as subject to talk-off as do the lower cost voter options. But the lower cost options are quite usable. One novel trick with the LDG Voter is to use the inputs for all your repeater receivers when the controller doesn't have enough RX ports. Documentation on both vintages of the GE voter (grey paint is early, black paint is late) is on the GE LBI page at repeater- builder. Mike WA6ILQ The Spectra Tac Voter Manuals pop up on Ebay every so often as to the GE Version Manuals. If you fool the status tone decoder with a local oscillator, keep in mind the level of the Status Tone also plays into the actual performance. It's not just a tone present or tone not present function. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
At 09:24 AM 07/27/10, you wrote: Mike Morris wa6...@... wrote: But there are ways around it. The simple method: Have a local 1950 oscillator at the voter site. It can be done with a 88mh toroid, a few resistors and caps, and a single transistor. Can't think of the last time I saw an 88mh Toroid for sale in any obvious location but I'm sure they're out there somewhere like Ebay. I found some of the newer one-chip GE Status Tone Encoders on Ebay a few months back and they were cheaper than I could have easily built them for. Sure. And I've also seen a status tone encoder made from a LM386. Naturally you'd want to use some high grade resistors and caps when building it. It drove an audio transformer... I have no idea where the guy found a transformer that eight 600 ohm windings... Have a SPDT reed relay driven by the link receiver RUS (or COR). Links can be on 420Mhz, 438-439Mhz, 900Mhz, or 1200 Mhz. ... and if you're creative some other places. The NC contact on the relay has 1950hz. NO contact has link receiver audio. Armature feeds voter card audio input. When channel is idle, card sees 1950hz and is happy. When channel is unsquelched card sees link receiver audio and votes. Wonder if the relay pole contact transition time contributes to any type of glitch, hunt, delay or erratic event that might otherwise not be there if you simply (resistance as an example) mixed and removed the Status Tone? Probably no more than the EM switching on a microwave shot. Reed relays last a long time - I've had used ones last 12 years, and new ones last 20, but you can use CMOS audio switches if you want. CD4053 and use the diagram from an ACC RC-85 Repeater Controller as your basic guide. Absolutely. Documentation on both vintages of the GE voter (grey paint is early, black paint is late) is on the GE LBI page at repeater- builder. Mike WA6ILQ The Spectra Tac Voter Manuals pop up on Ebay every so often as to the GE Version Manuals. If the manual is NLA from Moto we can scan it and post it. If you fool the status tone decoder with a local oscillator, keep in mind the level of the Status Tone also plays into the actual performance. It's not just a tone present or tone not present function. That's very true. But it's is one way to avoid 24/7 link duty cycle. Another is to configure the voter channel for EM and then drive the E leads with COR contacts. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
We have used the LDG RVS-8 voter with great success. http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/5/19/1 It is an 8 channel voter and does not need a 1950hz tone to operate, and is within a ham's limited budget. In fact it works so well, one was installed for a local sheriff's office. They have 4 remote sites plus the main site. Not a single hick-up with the system in over 3 years, and it provides 100% handheld coverage for the deputies on VHF. As far as links go, there is a number of ways to do them. But to get you started, visit this link, lots of good info to get you going: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/remotereceivers.html In short, use flat audio for your links (no pre or de-emphasis), use the same type equipment whenever possible, and keep the hang times short. A good sounding remote link should sound the same, or as close as possible, to the main input. Makes the voting process smoother, and adjustments easier. Good luck! Steve KD8BIW Repeater Tech KD8BIW/R 224.580 N8IHI/R 147.105 W3YXS/R 146.745 KD8JBF/R 443.325 http://www.kd8biw.com http://www.duplexcom.net
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
Hmm... My first post didn't make it through... Anyway.. We use, with great success, the LDG RVS-8 voter. It is an 8 channel voter, does not need a 1950hz tone to function, and is within the average ham's budget: http://www.ldgelectronics.com/c/252/products/5/19/1 It works so well in fact, that one was installed on a local sheriff's repeater. They have 4 remote receivers plus the main site on a VHF repeater. It has been working flawlessly for 3 years, and gives the deputies 100% handheld coverage of the county... As far as the links goes, there are a number of ways to do them. To get you started, read this first. Lots of good info here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/remotereceivers.html In short, use flat audio on the links (no pre or de-emphasis), use the same equipment whenever possible, and keep the hang times short. A remote link should sound the same, or close to, the main input. This makes adjusting the voeter easier, and gives you smooth voter operation. You should not be able to tell when the voter switches by the sound of the audio (within reason). Good luck! Steve KD8BIW http://www.kd8biw.com Repeater Tech KD8BIW/R 224.580 N8IHI/R 147.105 W3YXS/R 146.745 KD8JBF/R 443.325 It is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. -- Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper, USN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Recommendations for a Voter Link
Tim, I am not sure or do not remember what you have for a voter, but I have used the Doug Hall voters in a COR mode with very good results. I know there are some pretty good articles on adapting the Motorola Micor series of voters from tone to COR. This is one of the projects on my to-do list. Have all of the necessary parts, just need some time. Microwave or something keyed up 24-7 as you mentioned is the best, but don't discount using the COR method as it does work very well. The best results will be obtained using radios from the same series throughout the system. This will make it much easier to balance and equalize the audio response curve and levels. The Doug Hall voter does require discriminator audio from the receivers. We have used the Doug Hall voters with both Arcom RC-210 and Link-Comm RLC-1 external controllers with very good results. Good Luck, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tim - WD6AWP tisaw...@... wrote: I'm going to start working on building a link for a remote receiver. I already have a voter and I'll be using a VHF Micor receiver strip for the remote. A couple of mobiles that tune down to 420 might be good as I don't have a lot room. I'm thinking the link transmitter will be keyed 7x24 with tone signaling. However the duty cycle requirement is a problem for mobiles. A microwave system might be possible if I knew what and where to get. Wireline is probably out. I'd like to hear your ideas on how to put this together. Thanks, Tim P.S. Sorry if this post is a dup. The first one did seem to come through this morning.
