[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
I have a DB224-E on order along with hard line and a receive filter and crystal assembly. It seems that I have a 147.435 high power remote with a 12 element beam and 600 watts aimed through me from 1.105MHz away and only two city blocks. The 435 repeater is legendary. We've picked up commitments for public safety nets throughout the week and I need to get as much done on a limited budget as possible. Funny thing, members don't pay to join the ARC UNTIL it is dialed and tweaked. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same type cable? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bob - AF6D b...@... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:46 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio My 2 meter TKR has worked fine for about a year but has always had a problem on our frequent weak signals. We're a mountain community and CERT/RACES/ARES/Skywarn users are often on HT's. There are a couple of towers in the neighborhood at 6,400 feet over southern California (it's kewl living at a repeater site) and on my own gear I don't hear anything on a weak signal beyond the norm. But on the TKR it just sounds dirty. Grungy. Crunchy. There are commercial sites within one mile with high power paging but we've detected no intermod. We did have a bout were grungy audio was breaking PL and hanging until timeout. But that went away. The Wacom 6 cavity WP-642 is tuned dead on and offers excellent isolation and rejection (at a cost of 2-3dB loss on TX sigh). Another TKR user at a high elevation commercial site reports similar experiences. Yet another TKR owner reported that his is excellent and yes the audio is good. Just not for us on weak signals. He suggested perhaps an RFI issue but from where? Our installation is modest and constrained only by my lack of time and funds. My daughter is sick and I live in a hospital with her, so be gentle HI HI. The very large guard dog watches the house. The antenna is a Hustler G5-144 tuned with a MFJ 259, dead on and above the repeater through an insulated roof by about 30 feet. We have no desense. It is fed with LMR-400 just because I haven't put hard line on it. No preamps are installed. At 6,400 feet not much is needed. The receiver is .18uV. The TKR hears very well compared to my FT-847 with an antenna 20 feet lower. Why the grungy audio? Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/08/10 13:57:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
Bob - AF6D b...@... wrote: Why the grungy audio? Primary Suspects: 1. LMR Feed-line (gotta go) 2. Duplexer Alignment (verify with the proper test gear) 3. Repeater Pre-selector Alignment. How did the Dealer align the receiver front end? Most people use the peak for max signal method and that's not the best. I reliably work our local 2500ft repeater sites from 25 plus miles distance with a 200mW power setting on an HT inside the vehicle. If the signal is not reliable, I go looking for the reason(s) it is not. s. [the story] My 2 meter TKR has worked fine for about a year but has always had a problem on our frequent weak signals. We're a mountain community and CERT/RACES/ARES/Skywarn users are often on HT's. There are a couple of towers in the neighborhood at 6,400 feet over southern California (it's kewl living at a repeater site) and on my own gear I don't hear anything on a weak signal beyond the norm. But on the TKR it just sounds dirty. Grungy. Crunchy. There are commercial sites within one mile with high power paging but we've detected no intermod. We did have a bout were grungy audio was breaking PL and hanging until timeout. But that went away. The Wacom 6 cavity WP-642 is tuned dead on and offers excellent isolation and rejection (at a cost of 2-3dB loss on TX sigh). Another TKR user at a high elevation commercial site reports similar experiences. Yet another TKR owner reported that his is excellent and yes the audio is good. Just not for us on weak signals. He suggested perhaps an RFI issue but from where? Our installation is modest and constrained only by my lack of time and funds. My daughter is sick and I live in a hospital with her, so be gentle HI HI. The very large guard dog watches the house. The antenna is a Hustler G5-144 tuned with a MFJ 259, dead on and above the repeater through an insulated roof by about 30 feet. We have no desense. It is fed with LMR-400 just because I haven't put hard line on it. No preamps are installed. At 6,400 feet not much is needed. The receiver is .18uV. The TKR hears very well compared to my FT-847 with an antenna 20 feet lower. Why the grungy audio?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
At 10:20 AM 8/9/2010, skipp025 wrote: 3. Repeater Pre-selector Alignment. How did the Dealer align the receiver front end? Most people use the peak for max signal method and that's not the best. I can't answer the rest but this I can. We used the SINAD method Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
Repeater Pre-selector Alignment. How did the Dealer align the receiver front end? Most people use the peak for max signal method and that's not the best. We used the SINAD method There's a sample port in the receiver front-end for use with a tracking spectrum analyzer. The results of the Sinad Method are sometimes less than optimal. s.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
No, they use hard line. Other suggestions is a repeater output 15KHz off of our input that is pulling the receive over. I've got hard line just no time. We were buried under snow for months and then when it cleared my daughter started chemo. No time. But I'll have to make time. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same type cable? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bob - AF6D b...@... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:46 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio My 2 meter TKR has worked fine for about a year but has always had a problem on our frequent weak signals. We're a mountain community and CERT/RACES/ARES/Skywarn users are often on HT's. There are a couple of towers in the neighborhood at 6,400 feet over southern California (it's kewl living at a repeater site) and on my own gear I don't hear anything on a weak signal beyond the norm. But on the TKR it just sounds dirty. Grungy. Crunchy. There are commercial sites within one mile with high power paging but we've detected no intermod. We did have a bout were grungy audio was breaking PL and hanging until timeout. But that went away. The Wacom 6 cavity WP-642 is tuned dead on and offers excellent isolation and rejection (at a cost of 2-3dB loss on TX sigh). Another TKR user at a high elevation commercial site reports similar experiences. Yet another TKR owner reported that his is excellent and yes the audio is good. Just not for us on weak signals. He suggested perhaps an RFI issue but from where? Our installation is modest and constrained only by my lack of time and funds. My daughter is sick and I live in a hospital with her, so be gentle HI HI. The very large guard dog watches the house. The antenna is a Hustler G5-144 tuned with a MFJ 259, dead on and above the repeater through an insulated roof by about 30 feet. We have no desense. It is fed with LMR-400 just because I haven't put hard line on it. No preamps are installed. At 6,400 feet not much is needed. The receiver is .18uV. The TKR hears very well compared to my FT-847 with an antenna 20 feet lower. Why the grungy audio? Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/08/10 13:57:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
I'd still start with changing the cable and getting all LMR-400 (or similar) out of the system - no jumpers, etc. There are people who will tell you that they've gotten away using this type of cable, but the manufacturers admit it's not a low PIM cable. And I've seen it cause problems time and time again. If it's not the problem now, it likely will be later. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bob - AF6D b...@af6d.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:10 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio No, they use hard line. Other suggestions is a repeater output 15KHz off of our input that is pulling the receive over. I've got hard line just no time. We were buried under snow for months and then when it cleared my daughter started chemo. No time. But I'll have to make time. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same type cable? Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
Is there a write up on the procedure somewhere or could you explain it here? -- Tim :wq On Aug 9, 2010, at 10:20 AM, skipp025 wrote: 3. Repeater Pre-selector Alignment. How did the Dealer align the receiver front end? Most people use the peak for max signal method and that's not the best.
