RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that Polyphaser is a popular name in lightning arrestors but I wondered why I never saw that brand being used at a cellular telephone site. I've been working cellular (and paging) for about 20 years now and the P brand seems to be the most common one used here in the Northeast on 800-900Mhz systems. It's probably a cost issue, as the P brand is definitely cheaper. It also could be that the P brand does a very good job overall of protecting the equipment and Huber+Suhner might be considered a little overkill for this region of the USA. I have seen very little lightning damage done to equipment due to antenna hits. Most lightning damage seems to come in on the AC powerline or telephone circuits. I am not arguing that Suhner Huber is not a good product, in fact it is. The return on investment may not be there for our application. The H+S unit was waterproof while the P unit was not; The sites that I have worked on have the arrestor mounted inside the shelter at the access port, so this is not an issue for us. The real difference was in RF performance: the H+S unit had no impedance bump when tested on a network analyzer while the P unit had a prominent bump. And I can see why- the P unit has an asymmetrical jumper inside the case. Since cellular telephone systems operate generally in either the 880 MHz band or the 1900 MHz band, any impedance discontinuity can have significant and detrimental effects. I never swept an H+S device, but the Polyphaser usually sweeps around -30dB on our systems. This is not enough to concern us at 800Mhz. Huber+Suhner is probably the Mercedes Benz of arrestors, but the Polyphaser still does a very adequate job at a much lower cost. 73, Joe, K1ike Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Eric Lemmon wrote: I know that Polyphaser is a popular name in lightning arrestors but I wondered why I never saw that brand being used at a cellular telephone site. The brand I did see at most cellular and commercial sites was Huber + Suhner. So, I bought one of each brand, both of them specified as a bulkhead mount for 150 MHz and 100 watts. The Polyphaser unit was about $70 and the Huber + Suhner unit was about $125 with the proper gas capsule. Well, that would be why the polyphaser is more popular-it's half the price and still does the job. At least for most people ;c) Finally, I completely agree with several other posters who mentioned that a lightning arrestor on the feedline is only a small part of a properly-engineered lightning protection system. The tower itself should have a very robust grounding system, which should be solidly bonded to the building electrical and communication system grounds. Both the electrical supply and the communication (telephone) circuits should have surge protection. One of the most authoritative references for the best practices in this regard is the Motorola R56 Manual, also known as Standards and Guidelines for Communication Sites. The printed version, which comes in a nice binder, is 6881089E50 for about $85. The CD-ROM version is 9880384V83 for about $64. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ABSOLUTELY!!! BTW, the part number for the M/A-Com version is: AE/LZT 123 4618/1. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Steve, I use Polyphaser arresters for my repeater system... I prefer not to think of any lightning protection system or component as budget - all you need is to take one lightning strike, and budget goes right out the window!! I planned for expenses related to lightning protection when I started my project, and budgeted accordingly. My arrestors are at the point where the cabling comes into the building... single point ground. I believe you'll find almost everyone here does the same. Save yourself the heartache and get good lightning protection at the get-go. Even an antenna 20 ft up can get bit! My 2¢ worth, anyway... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
The going price for Polyphasers are about $65.00 wholesale. They are available with UHF and N Type Connectors. When I use my spare, I go to E-Bay and start watching. I buy them for about $25.00 IN THE BOX. Make sure you check the frequencies that you bid on. They come in different frequency ranges and power. Again I get them in the Box or take a sellers word that they are new as I don't want one that has been zapped a number of times. Good Luck! 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, NY Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Thank you for the reply but it was not helpful in that it did not offer an answer to the question. I was asking for suggestions of equipment on a budget and not snide remarks. Steve - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Steve what city in Florida are you in? I'm in Clearwater. Also I think his thought was you can not spend enough on lighting arrestors. been there and still doing that. buy good cause it really does count. John - Original Message - From: Stephen Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Thank you for the reply but it was not helpful in that it did not offer an answer to the question. I was asking for suggestions of equipment on a budget and not snide remarks. Steve - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
I prefer Alpha Delta. They have one model that covers all frequencies and is rated for 200 watts. They normally have UHF connectors; you have to pay $5 more for N connectors. They're about $50 new. I get mine from Universal Radio, HRO, or AES. The commercial site where my 900 MHz repeater is, has a bunch of PolyPhasers, so I bought one too. For that band, it's only good for 50 watts, and I don't think they had one rated for more power. So I had to replace it with an Alpha Delta; I should have just bought that the first time. Bob M. == --- Stephen Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Bob M. wrote: The commercial site where my 900 MHz repeater is, has a bunch of PolyPhasers, so I bought one too. For that band, it's only good for 50 watts, and I don't think they had one rated for more power. So I had to replace it with an Alpha Delta; I should have just bought that the first time. Bob M. Well, if it helps anyone, the Glenayre 1/4K 7900's we take of all have Polyphasers. IS-QPT50HN-B is the number. 890-980Mhz, 700W. Considerably larger then an average Poly at 4-3/8 X 2-3/8 X 1-1/4, less connectors. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Thank you Mark. I will look up the Polyphaser arrestors so that I can price them . I have been looking at a number of GAS type arrestors but since my experience was lacking in this area I felt that your answer was very helpful. Steve - Original Message - From: N9WYS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Steve, I use Polyphaser arresters for my repeater system... I prefer not to think of any lightning protection system or component as budget - all you need is to take one lightning strike, and budget goes right out the window!! I planned for expenses related to lightning protection when I started my project, and budgeted accordingly. My arrestors are at the point where the cabling comes into the building... single point ground. I believe you'll find almost everyone here does the same. Save yourself the heartache and get good lightning protection at the get-go. Even an antenna 20 ft up can get bit! My 2¢ worth, anyway... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
There are some decent units made by other companies than PolyPhaser. I.C.E. is one that comes to mind. However, your real expense isn't with the feedline protection. Keep in mind that you will need to have powerline protection and a single-point ground system. The grounding grid will likely cost you more than the lightning arrestors since you are in Florida - land of tough to get good ground. You'll need lots of ground rods and lots of large copper ground wire to construct a ground grid. This all needs to be bonded to phone and power grounds too. There's way more to it than simply putting a lightning arrestor on your coax. PolyPhaser wrote a book on it. Start looking for this information. Without doing it right, forget the lightning arrestor on the coax and buy insurance instead. Chuck WB2EDV Stephen Rice wrote: Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Thanks Jim and I am in the process of looking at the Polyphasers as Mark had recommennded them and the name was also in the repeater builder check list. I will check EBAY as well . Thanks Again ! Steve N4YZA - Original Message - From: Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors The going price for Polyphasers are about $65.00 wholesale. They are available with UHF and N Type Connectors. When I use my spare, I go to E-Bay and start watching. I buy them for about $25.00 IN THE BOX. Make sure you check the frequencies that you bid on. They come in different frequency ranges and power. Again I get them in the Box or take a sellers word that they are new as I don't want one that has been zapped a number of times. Good Luck! 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, NY Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Jim B. wrote: Well, if it helps anyone, the Glenayre 1/4K 7900's we take of take *care* of...as in maintain...duh... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
I am sorry it was not meant as a snide remark. It was a truism or pearl of wisdom. I also knew that many folks would respond with information to get equipment. It was an attempt to help you not loose your valuable investment by shortcutting quality or budget for protection. My sincere apology for offending you. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:45 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Thank you for the reply but it was not helpful in that it did not offer an answer to the question. I was asking for suggestions of equipment on a budget and not snide remarks. Steve - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Kevin, I owe you an apology as I have been a little short lately! I think not smoking the last 4 or 5 months got to me! You were correct to question the budget Lightning remark and I should of been more explicit. I have been looking on the web and have found so many arresters from 30-400 dollars and figured that someone on a budget would be able to get something reasonably good for a median price. I was not clear and did not have the expertise to determine which would work without pouring out 400 dollars if 50 or 80 or whatever would do as good of a job. I do realize I was short and I now have 2 or 3 brands to look at that I can compare knowing that others have had success with them. Again Kevin I should not of been that sharp and I should of accepted it in the way you intended. Steve N4YZA - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors I am sorry it was not meant as a snide remark. It was a truism or pearl of wisdom. I also knew that many folks would respond with information to get equipment. It was an attempt to help you not loose your valuable investment by shortcutting quality or budget for protection. My sincere apology for offending you. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:45 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Thank you for the reply but it was not helpful in that it did not offer an answer to the question. I was asking for suggestions of equipment on a budget and not snide remarks. Steve - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
no problem! I think you got pointed in the right direction. If you need detailed info on grounding, the company I work for has an engineering team that just works grounding for communication sites. And much of what they reference is the same info you were pointed to. A few years back I shared some documents on grounding. They maybe on the yahoo site. take a look there. If you can not find it I will look around. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Kevin, I owe you an apology as I have been a little short lately! I think not smoking the last 4 or 5 months got to me! You were correct to question the budget Lightning remark and I should of been more explicit. I have been looking on the web and have found so many arresters from 30-400 dollars and figured that someone on a budget would be able to get something reasonably good for a median price. I was not clear and did not have the expertise to determine which would work without pouring out 400 dollars if 50 or 80 or whatever would do as good of a job. I do realize I was short and I now have 2 or 3 brands to look at that I can compare knowing that others have had success with them. Again Kevin I should not of been that sharp and I should of accepted it in the way you intended. Steve N4YZA - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors I am sorry it was not meant as a snide remark. It was a truism or pearl of wisdom. I also knew that many folks would respond with information to get equipment. It was an attempt to help you not loose your valuable investment by shortcutting quality or budget for protection. My sincere apology for offending you. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:45 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Thank you for the reply but it was not helpful in that it did not offer an answer to the question. I was asking for suggestions of equipment on a budget and not snide remarks. Steve - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Only rich people can afford low cost/budget lightning protection! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the ground here in Florida and am now looking for a budget lightning arrester. I have seen so many different ads I figured I would go to the horses mouth and ask you all if you have to do it on a budget what did you use? Did you mount the arrestor outside with an appropriate ground or inside? By the way the antenna is low because of the community regs. and it does cover the community for GMRS emergency work at that height. Thanks Steve N4YZA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
The commercial site where my 900 MHz repeater is, has a bunch of PolyPhasers, so I bought one too. For that band, it's only good for 50 watts, and I don't think they had one rated for more power. So I had to replace it with an Alpha Delta; I should have just bought that the first time. Bob M. == The high-power (500+ watt) Polyphasers are usually advertised as being combiner protectors. They are made for various bands. In fact, if anyone has a need, I have a surplus of the UHF ones rated for 500 watts. --- Jeff Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Steve, This is a topic that has many proponents of certain brands or grounding methods. I liken it to the way some people (usually guys) talk about motor oil. You know the type: Well, I never use anything but Castrol GTX in MY car! The guys who say this have no special laboratory equipment or technical background to justify their position, but they crow about its benefits and offer the fact that their engines haven't blown up in 20,000 miles as proof of its superiority. Okay, I know a little about lightning protection, having worked as an EMC engineer on the Space Shuttle program. NASA did a huge amount of research on lightning at Kennedy Space Center in Florida, sending up small rockets that trailed a thin copper wire that actually triggered a lightning strike. There are hundreds of test reports in the NASA archives that document how lightning affects electronic equipment on the ground as well as manned space vehicles. I read most of those reports, and had the honor of meeting Dr. Philip Krider, one of the world's experts on lightning. I know that Polyphaser is a popular name in lightning arrestors but I wondered why I never saw that brand being used at a cellular telephone site. The brand I did see at most cellular and commercial sites was Huber + Suhner. So, I bought one of each brand, both of them specified as a bulkhead mount for 150 MHz and 100 watts. The Polyphaser unit was about $70 and the Huber + Suhner unit was about $125 with the proper gas capsule. The physical differences were considerable: The H+S unit was waterproof while the P unit was not; the H+S unit was completely machined out of stainless steel while the P unit was made of two diecast aluminum pieces; and the H+S unit had an easily replaceable gas capsule while the P unit had a soldered-in-place capsule. The real difference was in RF performance: the H+S unit had no impedance bump when tested on a network analyzer while the P unit had a prominent bump. And I can see why- the P unit has an asymmetrical jumper inside the case. Since cellular telephone systems operate generally in either the 880 MHz band or the 1900 MHz band, any impedance discontinuity can have significant and detrimental effects. But, let's get back to the lightning protection issue. Most high-quality antennas used with repeaters are DC grounded, so it is likely that most of a lightning stroke's current can go straight down to Mother Earth, instead of taking a side trip into the repeater equipment. Aluminum dipole antennas are favored for mountaintop sites simply because the mast itself- which is a good conductor- projects above the active elements and acts like an air terminal. However, even if the bulk of the stroke current goes into the ground system, there will be a high voltage spike going through the feedline. Ideally, the lightning arrestor should trigger at a voltage just above the voltage caused by the transmitter. A 100 watt signal in a 50 ohm circuit will have a peak amplitude of about 100 volts, so we want the gas tube to conduct when the voltage reaches 125 volts or so. If the gas capsule doesn't trigger until 500 volts is reached, a lot of damage can occur. What is nice about the Huber + Suhner arrestors is that the gas capsule can be selected to closely match the power level of the transmitter, thus affording maximum protection to the equipment. Go here for more info about Huber + Suhner products: http://www.hubersuhner.com/products/hs-p-rf.htm One thing to consider is that, regardless of the brand you choose, when the gas capsule triggers, it places a dead short across the feedline. If your transmitter is keyed when this short occurs, the power will be reflected back to the PA and may cause damage. It is always a good idea to have an isolator at the PA output to handle this momentary power reversal. Finally, I completely agree with several other posters who mentioned that a lightning arrestor on the feedline is only a small part of a properly-engineered lightning protection system. The tower itself should have a very robust grounding system, which should be solidly bonded to the building electrical and communication system grounds. Both the electrical supply and the communication (telephone) circuits should have surge protection. One of the most authoritative references for the best practices in this regard is the Motorola R56 Manual, also known as Standards and Guidelines for Communication Sites. The printed version, which comes in a nice binder, is 6881089E50 for about $85. The CD-ROM version is 9880384V83 for about $64. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Rice Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors Hi all, I had a question that I believe some of you can answer! I have a repeater with an antenna only about 20 feet off the
Re: [Repeater-Builder] lightning arrestors
Eric Lemmon wrote: Nice info on the HS vs P lightning arrestors, Eric. One of the local UHF ham repeater owners noticed a high SWR on his properly-lightning-protected (P, not HS, but still...) MSF-5000 a few weeks ago. They turned the power back quite a bit (SWR was about 1.5:1) and left it until weekend #2. Weekend #2, they went up and tested everything... at each place they could, they removed the connectors, inspected them, and put a good stable 50 ohm dummy load on the PA, and tested for reflectivity. None. Okay, problem's at the antenna. The antenna was a DB 8-element folded-dipole array... we've all seen 'em. Weekend #3, last weekend, they had a spare antenna, so they go get the local guys that know how to climb properly and go swap 'em... After they got the original antenna down, they could finally see what had happened. Thor had come for a visit. Melt-through, two holes near the top of the mounting mast, and when they tried to pull the two sections apart, they were arc welded together. Two strong guys couldn't pull the sections apart. It'll be interesting when they get around to doing the internal autopsy and looking at the harness to see what else is cooked. If I can, I'll get some photos. The antenna was mounted UNDERNEATH the platform on an old-style ATT microwave tower. The big thing with the large walk-around platform on the top? Yep... lightning can still get you, even hiding under the tower's large steel platform. (Hmm, that reminds me... here's a photo of the site after a wildfire got a little too close for comfort in July of last summer... ) http://www.natetech.com/?p=185 -- or www.rmham.org has it too. The MSF-5000 is fine, and much happier now with an antenna that's not crispy. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
