Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze grok comparison

2009-05-04 Thread Iain Duncan
On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 17:45 +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Chris McDonough wrote: On 5/4/09 1:21 AM, Iain Duncan wrote: Hi folks, I'm new here and was wondering if there is a good Repoze.bfg to Grok comparison page anywhere. If not, I'd like to recommend that it would be a great

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg 0.8 released

2009-05-18 Thread Iain Duncan
On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 03:36 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: repoze.bfg 0.8 has been released. Installation documentation exists at http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/narr/install.html . The gory details are in the changelog at http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/changes.html. There were 7 alpha releases of

[Repoze-dev] bfg docs

2009-06-25 Thread Iain Duncan
First off, I am super impressed by the effort put into the bfg docs. The ratio of docs to code is fantastic and IMHO bodes very well for adoption. =) Second, I'm finding some small typos that could be confusing to total beginners. What's the routing for helping out here? thanks Iain

Re: [Repoze-dev] bfg- Routes...

2009-06-25 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 04:09 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: Just a heads up. BFG currently uses Routes (http://routes.groovie.org) to do URL pattern matching. While fleshing out URL generation and matching support for BFG url dispatch, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably a

[Repoze-dev] repoze app standalone-ness

2009-06-25 Thread Iain Duncan
I'm new to zope/repoze etc. I'm working on something where I want ultimately to be able to drop it into any wsgi aware environment and have it *just work*. I plan on this project being a stupidly well document stand alone admin interface scaffold for cases where explicit is better than

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze app standalone-ness

2009-06-25 Thread Iain Duncan
On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 18:39 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Iain Duncan wrote: I'm new to zope/repoze etc. I'm working on something where I want ultimately to be able to drop it into any wsgi aware environment and have it *just work*. I plan

[Repoze-dev] bfg redirects

2009-06-27 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi folks, might be thinking about this all wrong, question re bgf In the case of a post updating a model from a form, and the update is done, I want to redirect to my 'view' view so as to prevent multiple submissions. In the docs I can see how to do a redirect with a specied url, but it seems

[Repoze-dev] bfg form generation

2009-06-27 Thread Iain Duncan
what are folks using to make forms and validation schemas with bfg? I am a big fan of formencode, but not sure how best to use it in the bfg context. I'm curious whether one can use zope form generation easily with formencode? thanks iain ___

Re: [Repoze-dev] traversal vs url dispatch for rest'ish applications

2009-06-29 Thread Iain Duncan
Let's imagine a view pets: from webob import Response def pets(context, request): return Response ('OK') when a URL comes in that is for a paricular pet: from webob import Response def pets(context, request): if request.subpath: petnum = request.subpath[0]

Re: [Repoze-dev] traversal vs url dispatch for rest'ish applications

2009-06-30 Thread Iain Duncan
On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 06:19 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: On 6/30/09 1:39 AM, Iain Duncan wrote: Let's imagine a view pets: from webob import Response def pets(context, request): return Response ('OK') when a URL comes in that is for a paricular pet: from webob import

[Repoze-dev] metaclass question

2009-07-05 Thread Iain Duncan
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but figured someone might be able to help! I am making a meta class to build schemas, the api for declaring a schema will look something like this: class MySchema(ViewFieldSchema): age = TextField.reg(label='Age') name =

[Repoze-dev] flashing messages with bfg

2009-07-08 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey folks, wondering what the conventional way of flashing a message after a model update when using HTTPFound for redirects. Is this something that people roll-their-own for, or is there a standard to follow? I'd like to make sure my crud app is as bfg'ish as possible so it can be useful to

Re: [Repoze-dev] flashing messages with bfg

2009-07-08 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 02:36 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: We don't have a convention for flash. I've been remiss in seeing how the other frameworks implement this, but I *think* something like this would be closest: return render_template_to_response('some/template.pt', message='Updated')

[Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg from within plone?

2009-08-05 Thread Iain Duncan
Just wondering if anyone manages to run bfg apps from within plone, and if so, do they have any examples up online? I'd love to be able to pass traversal from the plone-zope publisher to the repoze publisher, but I'm very new to this whole zope thing so maybe I'm smoking crack. Any suggestions on

[Repoze-dev] using bfg app as wsgi callable in a different environment?

2009-08-27 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi folks, I have a bfg app that makes a crud controller, where objects from the model package get attached through configure.zcml. This achieves my purpose of having the application completely unaware of the model. I want to use this app as a wsgi callable in another app ( a pylons project ), but

[Repoze-dev] accessing middleware or request from bgf models during traversal?

2009-09-03 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey folks, I have some stuff in middleware that I need my models in a bfg traversal graph to be able to get at. But I'm not sure what the correct way for those to get at the environ is. I could tack the environ onto all objects starting at default_get_root but that seems kind of clunky. I was

Re: [Repoze-dev] accessing middleware or request from bgf models during traversal?

2009-09-03 Thread Iain Duncan
On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 18:15 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: On 9/3/09 3:40 PM, Iain Duncan wrote: Hey folks, I have some stuff in middleware that I need my models in a bfg traversal graph to be able to get at. Using request parameters in model code is technically unsupported.In the bfg

[Repoze-dev] repoze.what-pylons question

2009-09-16 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi folks, not sure if this should be on pylons or here. I'm using the repoze.what pylons quickstart code, and I'm having problems with the fact that when @protect_action fails, it tries to call the login action *for the current controller*. This is causing me pain when my controller is a wsgi

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.what-pylons question

2009-09-16 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 10:55 +0200, Douglas Mayle wrote: I'm not exactly sure, but I've done some similar things which have worked, so I might be able to help out. First of all, instead of using default, you should probably be using __call__, like in:

[Repoze-dev] unescaping html in chameleon.genshi

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, if it is, please let me know where I should. Wondering if anyone can tell me what is necessary to display html coming from template variables with chameleon.genshi? IE what would have been ${HTML(var_with_html)} in genshi. thanks! Iain

Re: [Repoze-dev] getting at the bfg registry programmatically?

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 20:51 -0700, Iain Duncan wrote: Hi folks, I'm working on breaking out a project into bits, including some in bfg, some in pylons, and an abstract model that lives in it's own middleware. What I want to have happen is for all parts to share one zca registry, but my

[Repoze-dev] bfg site manager question ( another one )

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
Ok, so I figured out that if I get the zope.component.globalSiteManager in my model middleware on ingress, that in bfg I can indeed query it for registered adapaters and get at that. But in the bfg app, the global site manager is empty and the siteManager has the stuff from my zcml file. So, I

Re: [Repoze-dev] bfg site manager question ( another one )

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
On Sat, 2009-09-26 at 01:04 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: Iain Duncan wrote: Ok, so I figured out that if I get the zope.component.globalSiteManager in my model middleware on ingress, that in bfg I can indeed query it for registered adapaters and get at that. But in the bfg app, the global

Re: [Repoze-dev] bfg site manager question ( another one )

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
If I could get the 'one-registry-to-rule-them-all' loaded in middelware on ingress, is there at least a reasonable way of forcing the bgf app to use that registry as it's site manager? Nope. BFG hooks this hookable thing when it loads a ZCML file to put it in its own registry, and

Re: [Repoze-dev] bfg site manager question ( another one )

2009-09-25 Thread Iain Duncan
On Sat, 2009-09-26 at 01:42 -0400, Chris McDonough wrote: Iain Duncan wrote: If I could get the 'one-registry-to-rule-them-all' loaded in middelware on ingress, is there at least a reasonable way of forcing the bgf app to use that registry as it's site manager? Nope. BFG hooks

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg and repoze.what

2009-09-29 Thread Iain Duncan
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:49 -0400, Thomas G. Willis wrote: On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Rob Miller r...@burningman.com wrote: Thomas G. Willis wrote: Thanks for the response Chris, This makes perfect sense. And honestly I'm not married to repoze.who or repoze.what, To me it was

[Repoze-dev] match templates in chameleon.genshi?

2009-10-03 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey folks ( or rather Malte! ), wondering whether there are plans to include full match template support in chameleon.genshi? Is such a thing possible while still retaining speed? Are there other decent ways of doing template inheritance using chameleon.genshi that remove the need for it?

[Repoze-dev] mailing list split?

2009-11-22 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey folks, just floating the idea of splitting the issue tracker mailouts on to their own mailing list? In my experience on this and other lists, it's a lot more pleasant to read the mailing list without having to scroll through the issue tracking comments. Just a thought. Iain

[Repoze-dev] starter request

2009-11-22 Thread Iain Duncan
Wondering if it would be possible to add a paster starter template for bgf_routes ( no sqlalchemy )? Seems to be a missing piece. Thanks! Iain ___ Repoze-dev mailing list Repoze-dev@lists.repoze.org http://lists.repoze.org/listinfo/repoze-dev

[Repoze-dev] using the pylons/weberror interfactive debugger in bfg apps?

2009-11-22 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey all, one thing I miss in Pylons is the out of the box integration with the interactive debugger in your browser. I'll confess ignorance as to how this is hooked up, but it's *really* helpful to people learning pylons. Wondering if it would be a good plan to put this 'in the box' for bfg or

Re: [Repoze-dev] doc question

2009-11-23 Thread Iain Duncan
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 09:37 -0500, Chris Rossi wrote: On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote: Iain Duncan wrote: Am I missing something terribly obvious, or is that not just a regular instance method in the example? Or am

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg 1.2 released...

2010-02-12 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey, that's great news about the book. Do you know if it will be available as an e-book at all? Not sure how long that publisher would take to get things out of country and all. It is also quite expensive, but having formerly worked in the book industry I understand the many factors influencing

[Repoze-dev] Chameleon Genshi and match templates?

2010-02-12 Thread Iain Duncan
Been out of the loop for a bit, did Chameleon Genshi get match template support yet? I know Malte mentioned it was a possibility about six months ago or so. thanks Iain ___ Repoze-dev mailing list Repoze-dev@lists.repoze.org

Re: [Repoze-dev] deprecation of zcml for?

2010-04-07 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote: On 4/7/10 9:47 AM, Charlie Clark wrote: Am 07.04.2010, 15:41 Uhr, schrieb Chris McDonoughchr...@plope.com: I noticed in the 1.2 docs that view configuration in zcml uses the 'context' predicate instead of the zope

Re: [Repoze-dev] deprecation of zcml for?

2010-04-07 Thread Iain Duncan
Further to this, I just noticed that the cluegun sample app uses 'for', so maybe it would also help people checking out the sample apps and the 1.2 docs if 'for' where mentioned. thanks iain On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Iain Duncan iainduncanli...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.who in the cluegun sample app

2010-04-07 Thread Iain Duncan
thanks, that did it. On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Iain Duncan wrote: I think I must be missing something really obvious, help appreciated. I downloaded and installed the cluegun sample app to look

Re: [Repoze-dev] deprecation of zcml for?

2010-04-08 Thread Iain Duncan
, Iain Duncan wrote: Well, now you would have to know what you were looking for, whereas in the older docs, it was quite prominent in the narrative documentation. I realize this is a personal preference thing, and of course you'll do what you think is best, but as someone who came to repoze.bfg

[Repoze-dev] getting at the ZCAS registry used by a bfg app

2010-04-09 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi everyone, I remember asking this a while back and at that point there was no easy solution but it seems like BFG has many new features since then. Is there a straightforward way to get at registry populated on startup, from python code? For example, I hoped this would work, but it does not:

Re: [Repoze-dev] getting at the ZCAS registry used by a bfg app

2010-04-09 Thread Iain Duncan
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote: Can you read http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/1.2/narr/zca.html to see if it answers your question? It does, thanks, I guess I had not followed that link yet in the docs. And these new features make me very happy, my

Re: [Repoze-dev] getting at the ZCAS registry used by a bfg app

2010-04-09 Thread Iain Duncan
Hmm, now I don't know which method to use though. Perhaps a good addition to that page would be some brief insight on when one would use the global site manager vs the current site manager. I'm not clear whether I should tell bfg to use the global site manager and use that in the cousin code, or

[Repoze-dev] possible error in http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/1.2/narr/zca.html

2010-04-09 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey Chris ( et al ), when I copied the example in http://docs.repoze.org/bfg/1.2/narr/zca.html with this: def app(global_settings, **settings): globalreg = getGlobalSiteManager() config = Configurator(registry=globalreg) config.setup_registry(settings=settings) config.hook_zca()

Re: [Repoze-dev] getting at the ZCAS registry used by a bfg app

2010-04-09 Thread Iain Duncan
My standard answer about sharing registries: if your middleware requires ZCA access to the same ZCA registry (or any other configuration that doesn't come in the environ) as your application does to work, it is not middleware and probably shouldn't be written *as* middleware or a plugin to

Re: [Repoze-dev] recommended way to do session variables in a bfg app?

2010-04-11 Thread Iain Duncan
de la Guardia On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Iain Duncan iainduncanli...@gmail.com wrote: Wondering about using session variables in a bfg app. I didn't find any mention of it in the docs, so I assume it's something handled outside of bfg. Is the crustimony proceedcake just to add Beaker

[Repoze-dev] passing root_factory to a route in a hybrid BFG app?

2010-04-12 Thread Iain Duncan
Haven't heard anything back from my 'maybe a bug' email, so I'm wondering if anyone is successfully passing alternate root_factory arguments to routes in zcml in hybrid bfg apps with BFG 1.2? Ie, is this a user error? thanks! Iain ___ Repoze-dev mailing

Re: [Repoze-dev] passing root_factory to a route in a hybrid BFG app?

2010-04-12 Thread Iain Duncan
://docs.repoze.org/bfg/1.2/zcml/route.html#attributes). If you remember, can you point out where you got root_factory from so I can fix it in that spot? On 4/12/10 4:02 PM, Iain Duncan wrote: Haven't heard anything back from my 'maybe a bug' email, so I'm wondering if anyone is successfully

[Repoze-dev] ZCA registry confusion

2010-04-13 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi, I have some custom middleware that is intended to use the same ZCA registry as my bfg app. I've altered the run.py in the bfg app to tell it to use the global site manager, and the middleware looks up utilities by doing self.gsm = getGlobalSiteManager() self.gsm.queryUtility etc This is all

Re: [Repoze-dev] ZCA registry confusion

2010-04-13 Thread Iain Duncan
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote: On 4/13/10 9:22 PM, Iain Duncan wrote: Ok, I think a better way to phrase mine is: - is it safe and/or reasonable to use the repoze.bfg configurator to setup up the global ZCA registry for non-bfg uses

[Repoze-dev] GAE or other 'cloud' choices for bfg apps?

2010-04-14 Thread Iain Duncan
Hey all, I have an app that eventually is intended to be used as a subscriber service. I'm totally new to the cloud thing, wondering if experienced bfg'ers would like to weigh in with their experiences - what is your preferred cloud deployment for bfg apps? - what persistence mechanism gets used?

Re: [Repoze-dev] GAE or other 'cloud' choices for bfg apps?

2010-04-14 Thread Iain Duncan
Also curious about the economics of cloud deployment vs renting servers, input welcome. Iain On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Iain Duncan iainduncanli...@gmail.comwrote: Hey all, I have an app that eventually is intended to be used as a subscriber service. I'm totally new to the cloud thing

[Repoze-dev] wrapped views for routes?

2010-04-21 Thread Iain Duncan
Is there any chance of having wrapped views work on views declared with route/? ( IE declare a wrapper predicate on a route in zcml ) Seems like it would be handy to be able to do so. thanks Iain ___ Repoze-dev mailing list Repoze-dev@lists.repoze.org

Re: [Repoze-dev] wrapped views for routes?

2010-04-23 Thread Iain Duncan
awesome, thanks! On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote: On 4/21/10 11:23 , Chris McDonough wrote: The spelling: route name=route-name path=/some/path view=.some.view/ Is syntactic candy that can also be spelled like this: route

[Repoze-dev] BFG, override configurator settings after Config construction

2010-04-24 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi folks, I'm wondering if it's possible to change configurator settings after the constructor has fired and a zcml file has been parsed. Specifically I'd like to be able to use my regular zcml file but then turn off the authentication and authorization policy, something like this ( which didn't

[Repoze-dev] mysterious repoze.who problem

2010-06-01 Thread Iain Duncan
I know this is not enough info for a real diagnosis, but thought maybe someone would be able to say where I might look for issues from a description. I wrote a bfg app using repoze.who, and it uses a custom authentication plugin. In the apps zcml I'm using repozewho1authenticationpolicy/

[Repoze-dev] url dispatch, args, matchdicts

2010-06-02 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi bfg folks, one feature I miss from pylons is having elements from the route parsing be automatically passed to controller methods as named args. I expect this got some thought and was decided against, I'm curious why? It seems to me it would be nice if this route: route path=/foo/bar/:baz

Re: [Repoze-dev] url dispatch, args, matchdicts

2010-06-02 Thread Iain Duncan
Iain Duncan wrote: Hi bfg folks, one feature I miss from pylons is having elements from the route parsing be automatically passed to controller methods as named args. I expect this got some thought and was decided against, I'm curious why? It seems to me it would be nice if this route

Re: [Repoze-dev] url dispatch, args, matchdicts

2010-06-02 Thread Iain Duncan
Hmm, what about adding another optional param to route tags? something like use_global_views, but as a flag for the passing in named args automatically? I would think a lot of people coming to bfg from other frameworks and using it as a micro-framework would really like that. Or am I

[Repoze-dev] strange error with repoze.bfg route_url and chameleon

2010-06-13 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi folks, I'm getting a really weird error wondering if anyone might have experienced anything like it. I made a view url building helper, url_for. It uses the route name, and builds the correct url for the resource, where this route is a hybrid route with traversal. My helper works fine, when I

[Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg random intermittent server errors fetching static resources

2010-08-18 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi everyone, I have an app that I have set up to use the bfg resources facility for serving static files. I'm pretty sure I've done it right, because most of the time everything works. However, a lot of the time, seemingly random static request just get served up an internal server error 500 by

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg random intermittent server errors fetching static resources

2010-08-18 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Iain Duncan iainduncanli...@gmail.comwrote: Maybe some of this well help, I'm serving with paster serve --reload ( though removing reload doesn't seem to help ). It definitely seems like paster and/or bfg are not keeping up for some reason ( could be me

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg random intermittent server errors fetching static resources

2010-08-18 Thread Iain Duncan
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.ukwrote: Iain Duncan wrote: FWIW, I can sit there and hit reload, and get totally different responses randomly, sometimes my bfg methods return what they are supposed to, and others I get the 500s. Could

[Repoze-dev] bfg concurrency problem with SqlAlchemy, uh-oh

2010-08-18 Thread Iain Duncan
I'm sure this is my fault, but hoping someone has helpful suggestions. have figured out that my weird issue happens when two requests hit the paster server serving my app too quickly. When I put a breakpoint in my javascript debugger, and manually separate the ajax requests in time, I don't have

Re: [Repoze-dev] bfg concurrency problem with SqlAlchemy, SOLVED

2010-08-18 Thread Iain Duncan
make a call to clear_mappers in one thread you kill them in another concurrently requesting threadl. I need to make a utility that globally makes my mappers at server startup and leave them alone. hope that helps someone sometime. Iain On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Iain Duncan iainduncanli

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg random intermittent server errors fetching static resources

2010-08-20 Thread Iain Duncan
and have them served by Apache. thanks iain On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:16 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Iain Duncan wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote: Iain Duncan wrote: FWIW, I

Re: [Repoze-dev] repoze.bfg is now Pyramid

2010-11-09 Thread Iain Duncan
This just totally made my day! Way to go guys. Iain On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Luciano Ramalho luci...@ramalho.org wrote: On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.comoptilude%2bli...@gmail.com wrote: Can I just say this is an almost unheard of degree of

Re: [Repoze-dev] anyone know a good editor for BFG book?

2010-11-09 Thread Iain Duncan
I would. I don't have any formal qualifications but have worked in the book business, taught, and can write very well. I also have experience with Django, Zope 3, Pylons, TG, and repoze.bfg, and have read the major books on most of them so I might be good for perspective. Won't be at all offended

[Repoze-dev] entry points vs ZCA registrations

2010-11-12 Thread Iain Duncan
Reading some of the diaolgue on the pylons/bfg merger has me curious about the following, wondering if any experts care to share opinions and war stories: - what is the best use case for extending through entry points? - why/when would you use entry points and entires in an ini file vs

[Repoze-dev] making a new zcml directive in repoze.bfg

2010-11-19 Thread Iain Duncan
Hi, I'm trying to make a new directive to simplify some repetitive stuff in my app/framework thing built on bfg. I could have sworn I read something on this topic at some point but am having problems finding it. I have found docs on doing it in zope 3 but wanted to check whether there is anything

[Repoze-dev] bfg chameleon unicode crash with wrapper views

2010-12-15 Thread Iain Duncan
Not sure where I'm supposed to ask this now, here? Pyramid list? I have view with a chameleon template that contains utf-8 unicode special chars. It renders fine when rendered on it's own from a view. As soon as I wrap that view with a wrapper view, I get errors with the wrapper choking on the

[Repoze-dev] recursive macro problem with Chameleon zpt, bug? implementation issue?

2011-04-24 Thread Iain Duncan
Apologies for the cross post ( and direct post), not sure whether this should be in Pylons discuss or Repoze these days. I'm trying to use a recursive metal macro in a zpt template in a pyramid app, from what I can tell, the following should work, but I don't know what' wrong: ul