Crystallography Open Database

[Armel Le Bail]

IUCr have done a great job in putting ALL Acta papers on-line.
They have also declined your proposal that they "contribute"
data to COD and recommend that people support existing
databases instead. So how about helping raise money from
the French equivalent of NSF for that purpose ?
There is not yet any French equivalent of NSF or NIH. Our
prime minister proposed a few weeks ago 1 billion euros per
year during 3 years for installing that NSF-equivalent system.
There is also an European project. See the Royal-Society
opinion about it :
http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/files/statfiles/document-253.pdf
Concerning IUCr and COD, the story is not finished already.
Read the letter below. My conclusion is that IUCr uses COD
as a pressure tool on the monopolistic crystallography databases
in order to obtain lower costs for developing countries.
Microsoft is pursued in Europe for "abuse of dominant position".
Why not pursuing these crystallography databases monopoly ?
Just see the ICDD PDF2 or PDF4 costs. Transforming ICSD
and CSD into powder patterns and selling the product
approximately 10 times the ICSD and CSD costs, is that not
abusing ? Yes we are cows, in french the expression is "vaches à
lait" for the designation of people pressured for money till the
last drop.
Armel

==
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:05:54 -0500
At 2003 meeting help in Broome, Australia the Executive Committee of the
IUCr discussed the Crystallographic Open Database.
The proponents of COD have requested permission to download systematically
all the CIFs archived by the IUCr.
The Executive Committee appreciated the efforts of the advocates of the COD
to make crystallographic data available free of charge, especially to
developing countries. However, the Executive Committee was concerned to
ensure the quality of data that was made available and did not wish
accurately checked CIFs (or REF versions) to be intermixed with CIFs of
unknown accuracy. Much effort had been devoted to ensure the accuracy of
CIFs associated with published structures in the IUCr journals. The
Executive Committee further noted the strong objections that had been
received from the established databases. Accordingly, the Executive
Committee did not approve the request to download CIFs held in the IUCr
archive. The Executive Committee was keen to encourage the COD proponents
to collaborate with the existing databases to discuss ways in which these
databases could be made available to more developing countries at
significantly reduced or little cost. The Executive Committee felt that
this would be a much more useful and productive course of action and
planned to approach the existing database distributors to promote this
venture.
Because one of the guiding principals of the IUCr is to nurture
crystallography in emerging nations and because the IUCr is a
not-for-profit organization, it is difficult to oppose efforts to make the
data in the IUCr Journals freely available to research scientists
everywhere. The fact that the IUCr makes CIF files available to some
organizations who distribute the data to the industrial community at a
significant profit makes it especially difficult to justify withholding the
data from organizations that would distribute the data free of charge to
users in disadvantaged countries.
The Executive Committee is aware of some efforts on the part of database
distributors to aid emerging nations (offering prizes, supporting research.
etc.) We would appreciate it if explicit mechanisms to increase
distribution of the Databases to third world nations would be
developed. Perhaps the cost of the database to academic users in third
world countries could be prorated relative to the charges to the UK, USA,
and Japan on the basis of relative gross national product, average
crystallographers salary or some such criteria.
If the disparity in distribution of the existing databases to which the
IUCr freely provides its data cannot be resolved, the IUCr might need to
reconsider its responsibility to emerging nations and its policy vis a vis
the COD.
William L. Duax, Ph.D.
President, International Union of Crystallography
Hauptman Woodward Medical Research Inst
73 High Street
Buffalo, NY 14203
Phone: 716-856-9600
Fax: 716-852-6086
E-Mail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: <http://www.iucr.org>http://www.iucr.org
=

Re: ICSD database updated to 76,480 inorganic structures

[Alan Hewat]

At 21:10 31/03/2004, Armel Le Bail wrote:

>...who are the cows producing the milk ? You and me...

Armel, you can't be a cow and also consume butter & milkmaids !

>The AMCSD... target is a global database of all minerals, 
>and maybe more, the funds come from the NSF...
>IUCr journals propose now the possibility to place your 
>papers in open access, the cost is 800 US$ ...expensive.

IUCr, like the American Mineralogists, have to get money 
from somewhere to continue publishing. Is that really a better 
solution ? Even you and I are paid salaries (unlike cows). 

IUCr have done a great job in putting ALL Acta papers on-line.
They have also declined your proposal that they "contribute" 
data to COD and recommend that people support existing 
databases instead. So how about helping raise money from 
the French equivalent of NSF for that purpose ?

Alan.

Alan Hewat, ILL Grenoble, FRANCE  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> fax (33) 4.76.20.76.48
(33) 4.76.20.72.13 (.26 Mme Guillermet) http://www.ill.fr/dif/AlanHewat.htm 
___

Re: Choosing origins

[Radovan Cerny]

I asked a related question on sci.techniques.xtallography a few weeks 
ago, but have yet to hear anything, misinformation or otherwise. If 
anyone here can give me some pointers, I'd be very grateful. I just 
want to find all the allowed equivalent origin choices for comparing 
structures, and I'm wondering if there is a way to choose a specific 
one (for example in terms of the phases of certain reflections?).

Dear Jon,

for comparing the structures (I suppose that the idea is to say whether 
two structures are isotypic or not) you may consider the works by Parthe 
and Gelato on standartization of crystal structures:

Acta Cryst. A40 (1984) 169-183
Acta Cryst. A41 (1985) 142-151
J. Appl. Cryst. 20 (1987) 139-143
Best

Radovan

--
Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm