Re: Selective peak broadening - interpretation and handling in FullProf

2015-08-04 Thread Leonid Solovyov
Dear Kotaro, 

The microstructure-related peak broadening always increase with 2Theta (and 
decrease with d). 
In your case, I suspect, the increase of FWHM with d might be due to an 
instrumental contribution, as the general trend looks similar to that of the 
CeO2 standard. 

Best regards, 
Leonid 

 ***
Leonid A. Solovyov
Institute of Chemistry and Chemical Technology
660036, Akademgorodok 50/24, Krasnoyarsk, Russia
http://sites.google.com/site/solovyovleonid
***


- Original Message -
From: Kotaro SAITO 
To: Radovan Cerny ; l_solov...@yahoo.com
Cc: "Rietveld_l@ill.fr" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Selective peak broadening - interpretation and handling in FullProf

Dear Radovan and Leonid,

Thanks for your comments.
Both papers are very interesting and seem to contain good hints for my case.

Now I am confusing when I compare peak width vs. 2th in constant wave profiles  
and peak width vs. d in TOF.
When I plot FWHM/d vs. d, FWHM/d of all-odd peaks increases with increasing d. 
(Note these FWHM are obtained with multiple peak fitting with simple Gaussian.)
In other words, peak broadening is large for small hkl peaks.
Here is the plot. (not an attachment file!) 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uzm0fv3q8ljoq5o/Layout0.pdf?dl=0
On the other hand, for example Fig.3 in Leonid’s paper 
(http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S00218898114X), peak broadening is larger for 
large 2th, which means large hkl peaks.
If the peak broadening in my TOF data has a similar origin as two papers which 
Radovan and Leonid showed, is it acceptable to have such different hkl 
dependence between TOF and 2th data? Or do I miss some basic points about 
diffraction?

Best regards, 

Kotaro

//////
  Kotaro SAITO
  High Energy Accelerator Research Organization
  Institute of Materials Structure Science
  1-1 Oho, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, 305-0801, Japan
//////
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Re: Selective peak broadening - interpretation and handling in FullProf

2015-08-04 Thread Alan Hewat
On 4 August 2015 at 11:54, Kotaro SAITO  wrote:

> Or do I miss some basic points about diffraction?


I won't try to address your specific material... and I'm being called to
lunch :-) But for beginners who may be lost in these technical papers, I
will attempt the following trivial explanation

If you have a layered material where two layers A and B are slightly
different you will have super-structure reflections. These will be as sharp
as the main reflections (from the average structure) if the order of the
layers is perfectly regular ABABABAB...

But if the layers only have short-range order eg ABABBABAAB... then these
superlattice reflections will be broadened, and even completely washed out
if the order between layers is completely random. Otherwise the width
delta-d of the superstructure reflections will give you the short range
order length - the shorter the correlation length the broader the
superlattice reflections.

Obviously delta-d doesn't depend on the d-spacing between layers, only on
the length of their order. So the broadening is constant in d-space as
usually plotted for TOF neutron diffraction.

For angular dispersion eg with a constant x-ray or neutron wavelength,
Bragg's law 2d.sin(theta)=lambda comes in. If you differentiate Bragg's law
you will find a simple relation between delta-d and delta-2theta, the line
broadening for angular dispersion measurements.

Alan.
(Everything should be as simple as possible... but no simpler.)
BTW, thanks for using dropbox instead of an attachment. That's the way to
go...
-- 
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
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Re: Selective peak broadening - interpretation and handling in FullProf

2015-08-04 Thread Kotaro SAITO
Dear Radovan and Leonid,

Thanks for your comments.
Both papers are very interesting and seem to contain good hints for my case.

Now I am confusing when I compare peak width vs. 2th in constant wave profiles  
and peak width vs. d in TOF.
When I plot FWHM/d vs. d, FWHM/d of all-odd peaks increases with increasing d. 
(Note these FWHM are obtained with multiple peak fitting with simple Gaussian.)
In other words, peak broadening is large for small hkl peaks.
Here is the plot. (not an attachment file!) 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uzm0fv3q8ljoq5o/Layout0.pdf?dl=0
On the other hand, for example Fig.3 in Leonid’s paper 
(http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S00218898114X), peak broadening is larger for 
large 2th, which means large hkl peaks.
If the peak broadening in my TOF data has a similar origin as two papers which 
Radovan and Leonid showed, is it acceptable to have such different hkl 
dependence between TOF and 2th data? Or do I miss some basic points about 
diffraction?

Best regards, 

Kotaro

//////
  Kotaro SAITO
  High Energy Accelerator Research Organization
  Institute of Materials Structure Science
  1-1 Oho, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, 305-0801, Japan
//////

> 2015/07/31 17:13、Radovan Cerny  のメール:
> 
> Dear Kotaro,
>  
> The same rule of line broadening was observed in beta phase of Mg(BH4)2, and 
> was explained as ordering of twin domains, in other words microtwinning which 
> creates a superstructure to the even,even,even subcell. If the twinning 
> probability is not 100%, then the odd,odd,odd reflections broaden till they 
> disappear.
> You may find an inspiration in
>  
> Acta Cryst. (2007). B63, 561-568[ doi:10.1107/S0108768107022665 ]
> 
> Structure of unsolvated magnesium borohydride Mg(BH4)2
> 
> J.-H. Her, P. W. Stephens, Y. Gao, G. L. Soloveichik, J. Rijssenbeek, M. 
> Andrus and J.-C. Zhao
> 
>  
>  
> In Fullprof there are few models of line broadening, but I do not know 
> whether any of them can be used for your case. In Topas you may create any 
> model of line broadening using the macro language.
>  
> Hope it helps
>  
> Radovan
>  
>  
> Radovan Cerny 
> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
> Université de Genève   
> 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet 
> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland   
> Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
> mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
> URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
>  
> De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part 
> de Kotaro SAITO
> Envoyé : vendredi 31 juillet 2015 09:15
> À : Rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Objet : Selective peak broadening - interpretation and handling in FullProf
>  
> Dear Rietvelders,
> 
> There is two things I would like to ask.
> 
> 1. Physical interpretation of selective peak broadening
>  I have a difficulty in interpreting selective peak broadening in my TOF data 
> of quaternary Heusler alloy.
> All peaks for all-odd hkl reflections show significant broadening (about 25% 
> increase from the instrumental resolution for small d range and 100% increase 
> for large d range).
> Other peaks for all-even hkl stay in the instrumental resolution for whole d 
> range.
> If hkl reflections for one specific direction show broadening, it might be 
> easier to interpret.
> But this time, it is not the case. (eg. 111 reflection shows significant 
> broadening but 222 does not.)
> If I write the sample's chemical formula as ABCD, 4 sites in the Heusler 
> alloy along [111] direction seems to be (A,B)-(C,D)-(C,D)-(A,B) with 
> different site mixing ratio according to brief analysis.
> One thing I have noticed is that each lattice plane for all-odd hkl consists 
> of one sublattice.
> For the case of 111 reflection, which is the easiest case, first plane at the 
> origin consists only (A,B). Second plane consists only (C,D), and so on.
> This holds for other all-odd hkl reflections
> Does anyone know good literatures to get some hints for this?
> I have checked “Defect and Microstructure Analysis by Diffraction” by Snyder, 
> Fiala, and Bunge, but I couldn’t find descriptions about selective peak 
> broadening.
>  
> 2. Handling selective peak broadening in FullProf
> The manual says “there is a number of size models built into FullProf 
> corresponding to particular sets of reflections that are affected from 
> broadening.”
> But I only find Size-Model=14 and -2 (to -9) in the manual for that purpose. 
> Are there any models other than these?
> And, does anyone know what Size-Model=14 is?
> The manual only shows a result using Size-Model=14 (Figure 2) without any 
> explanations.
> I have already tried Size-Model=-2 and it works well but not sufficient for 
> 111 peak which shows the largest broadening. (and it does not gives me any 
> physical interpretation, of course.)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Kotaro
> 
> 
> //////
>   Kotaro SAITO
>   High Energ