RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
After reading the slew of emails that landed in my inbox over the last couple of days I'll put my hat on as CPD chair and put my head above the parapet (hopefully not to be shot at) The IUCr (and others) have tried to get journals to use powder cifs and checkcif for structures for some time with limited success. The powder CIF is less than ideal we know but it does work (with some frustrations). This doesn't stop lousy data being used in papers for other purposes but we have to trust to the admittedly imperfect peer review process to weed out the worst offenders. Education in powder diffraction (or the lack of) is an ongoing problem but resources do exist if you search for them. I believe I mentioned these in the past but no harm repeating the point The CPD webpage has a number, including the Erice school content which covers alot of advanced material and the Canadian Powder Diffraction workshop which has more basic material. http://www.iucr.org/resources/commissions/powder-diffraction/schools The Rietveld refinement guidelines are an oft-ignored resource which is now open-source so no excuse not to read them (and hopefully heed their recommendations) http://dx.doi.org/10.1107/S0021889898009856 Pam From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] on behalf of Lubomir Smrcok [uachs...@savba.sk] Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:25 PM To: Kurt Leinenweber Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi Rievelders, Although I have gone in the past years a long away from daily rietvelding, from time to time I can't resist my temptation to comment on some posts (OK, if the cap fits ... :-) and some of the comments could be well called snarky. But if you read that someone i) in facts asks people to solve his problem ASAP, or ii) a beginner without knowledge of elementary crystallography tries to refine ADP of a cubic special position, because a SW permits and complains about matrix problems, or iii) someone attempts quantitative standardless phase analysis of mixtures of disordered minerals whose structures are at maximum just estimated ... etc., etc.. All right, you may accuse me of going too far, or of exaggerating but isn't it at least half true ? If it is a PhD student I always ask where's his/her supervisor ? We could also ask the companies who claim that perfect (and I simply must add here : though physically or statistically impossible - not to speak of common sense ... ) results can be easily achieved when their SW is applied. Should we tell them or better not as are we afraid ( I am not, I do not apply :-) of loosing their sponsorships ? Best, Lubo On Sun, 10 May 2015, Kurt Leinenweber wrote: Hi, The subject of snarky comments is a fascinating one. I have definitely been the recipient of snarky comments for some of my more stupid posts on this list. The good thing about them is that it lets you know that you are saying or doing something, crystallographically speaking, that is really unpalatable to someone out there, and you might need to know this for your own good. I have definitely been chastised and have learned some things over the years by being forced to read a snarky response to one of my posts. But on the other hand, to a beginner a snarky comment can be damaging. However, these comments are not confined to mailing lists ? they happen at conferences too and they are just part of the fabric of science. As long as the whole list does not descend into a chaos of snarky comments, I think it?s OK to let them get through. One possible remedy is for others to come to the defence of a victim of excessive snarkiness. I have seen that happen on this list sometimes, and other times have been tempted myself to intervene, though I usually have not been brave enough (especially when the snark source is someone famous). - Kurt From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Darren Broom Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:36 AM To: Alan Hewat; Leopoldo Suescun Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi Alan Thanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to host additional files on the archive server. It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out. Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)? Best regards, Darren
Re: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Dear Leo. I want to assure you that my reaction was not specifically directed at you. Other well known crystallographers have also been suspended for a short time, and I must apply the same rules to everyone. Yes, I can see that the paper is already published on the web, but I still think that it would have been better to just include that link even though not everyone will have access to ScienceDirect. You might also have explained briefly that the statistics are remarkably poor, and that it is very difficult to conclude on the basis of the appearance of a few very weak peaks that the material includes a second phase (only) for x0.3 And yes, J.Mag.Mag.Mat. is a well respected journal that includes a lot of crystallography, especially with neutrons. It is disappointing that such poor data is accepted. Alan. PS In copying my reply to the Rietveld list, I naturally take responsibility for revealing the link to the paper. If it is already published on ScienceDirect, then people can publicly comment on it IMHO. On 9 May 2015 at 15:26, Leopoldo Suescun leopo...@fq.edu.uy wrote: Dear Alan, Thanks for your clarifying opinion. I just want to clarify that my only violation on this issue was the attached figure. There was none related to the figure itself that is published on-line (for people with access - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304885315300408). This is a web version that is ahead of the paper version by many months, that´s why I said that it will be published in September 2015. Additionally I just wanted to show an example, of many I have seen, but was very eye-catching. I did not wanted to make a point respect to the specific journal or the authors, that was the reason for not linking to the on-line version of the paper itself... Maybe wrong way of rising the point (the attachment) and wrong choice of words (sounding this was unpublished) but my worry and that of many are the point (unfortunately almost nobody referred to it) and maybe we should start looking for ways to prevent this kind of degradation in generally trustworthy journals... With best regards, Leo 2015-05-09 6:39 GMT-03:00 Alan Hewat alan.he...@neutronoptics.com: Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid sinful attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed Twitter, except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about no attachments as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple no attachments rule, so what would it be like policing a small attachments rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your small attachment. In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of examples in the published literature if you are looking for evidence of regression. So where are the Apologies? There are none :-) Excuse me is what people say when they elbow their way through a crowd. (I only do that when I really need to). So if you really need to attach a document, go ahead. After all, you can still read the list on the archive. Alan __ * Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE * alan.he...@neutronoptics.com +33.476.98.41.68 http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat __ ++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Send commands to lists...@ill.fr eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
Re: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Dear Song Zhen. Thank you for the detailed instructions on how to ensure that my footer is appended to the main text rather than attached. I agree that in-line signatures are better than those attached (Microsoft style visiting cards) and probably I chose the plain text setting rather than mime. In the Rietveld archive https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ where only plain text is preserved and attachments aren't, my footer is still there, which makes me think that it is already appended in-line, but I will check on the server next week. Your suggestion of how to prevent attachments will also be followed up. I probably interpreted publicnomultipart to be anyone can send messages, while I want to restrict sending to members to prevent spam. But the nomultipart seems to be the key to preventing attachments, so I will look at that too. Thank you again for your suggestions. I am not an expert with mail servers, and the SYMPA instructions seem rather complex. With kind regards, Alan. On 9 May 2015 at 13:16, azurebayer azureba...@163.com wrote: Dear Alan, Maybe the below information is useful for you to solve your problems: 1. The message-footer.txt attachment. Per default, your mailing list setting for a footer type is set to 'append', which appends the footer as plain text. If you compose messages to your list mainly in HTML or Rich-Text format, this might not be the right setting for you. The message entails so-called MIME parts with different format versions (plain-text and HTML in that case). Most email clients display only the HTML version and therefore not the appended plain-text footer. Changing the attachment type fixes this. Email format / Sympa setting append mime HTML no visible footer visible footer + attachment Rich-Text no visible footer visible footer + attachment Plain-Textvisible footer visible footer To fix this please follow these steps to set up the footer attachment type: 1.Login to your Sympa account. 2.Under Your Lists click Admin Edit List Config Sending/reception. 3.In the right-hand pane, near the bottom, change the Attachment type by clicking the pulldown-arrow and selecting mime. 4.Click the Update button at the end of the page. 2. Attachment forbidden Sending Scenarios To change which send scenario is being used for your list, select the list under “Your Lists,” then click “List Administration” in the “List Operations” section, then “Edit List Configuration,” and finally “Sending/Receiving Setup” — the send scenario choices are in the first section, named “Who can send messages.” Available choices include: ... publicnomultipart Anyone may send to the list. Messages with attachments are simply rejected. Good luck! Song Zhen -- Song Zhen Department of Materials Physics and Chemistry University of Science and Technology Beijing At 2015-05-09 17:39:46, Alan Hewat alan.he...@neutronoptics.com wrote: Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid sinful attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed Twitter, except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about no attachments as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple no attachments rule, so what would it be like policing a small attachments rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your small attachment. In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of
RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Hi AlanThanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to "host" additional files on the archive server.It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out.Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise.Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)?Best regards,Darren -Original Message-From: alan.he...@neutronoptics.comSent: Sat, 9 May 2015 11:39:46 +0200To: leopo...@fq.edu.uySubject: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule.Dear Rietveld list.Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging.So why do I forbid "sinful" attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed "Twitter", except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity.Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive.If you see my own warning about "no attachments" as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.orgI didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple "no attachments" rule, so what would it be like policing a "small attachments" rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your "small attachment".In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of examples in the published literature if you are looking for evidence of regression.So where are the "Apologies"? There are none :-) "Excuse me" is what people say when they elbow their way through a crowd. (I only do that when I really need to). So if you really need to attach a document, go ahead. After all, you can still read the list on the archive.Alan__ Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCEalan.he...@neutronoptics.com +33.476.98.41.68http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat__ ++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Send commands to lists...@ill.fr eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++
Re: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
maybe I should duck back down behind the parapet and continue as only an observer! No, it was a good joke Darren. We need more of that. Don't be put off by snarky comments. Jon's comment was also more of a joke than a snark. What he is doing is more interesting so far than the gedanken experiments on XFEL sources to which he referred. Regards, Alan. __ * Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE * alan.he...@neutronoptics.com +33.476.98.41.68 http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat __ ++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Send commands to lists...@ill.fr eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++
RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Hi Darren, That’s a very good point and clarification. - Kurt From: Darren Broom [mailto:darrenbr...@inbox.com] Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 6:54 AM To: rietveld_l@ill.fr Cc: Kurt Leinenweber Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi Kurt Maybe I should let others comment first but I would just like to say that I think a slightly harsh comment to an experienced person who has made a silly mistake is quite different to an abrupt and perhaps patronizing comment to a complete beginner who has asked a legitimate question. I have checked back and it was definitely the latter that Bill Reese was commenting on previously... Cheers, Darren -Original Message- From: ku...@asu.edumailto:ku...@asu.edu Sent: Sun, 10 May 2015 13:26:28 + To: rietveld_l@ill.frmailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi, The subject of snarky comments is a fascinating one. I have definitely been the recipient of snarky comments for some of my more stupid posts on this list. The good thing about them is that it lets you know that you are saying or doing something, crystallographically speaking, that is really unpalatable to someone out there, and you might need to know this for your own good. I have definitely been chastised and have learned some things over the years by being forced to read a snarky response to one of my posts. But on the other hand, to a beginner a snarky comment can be damaging. However, these comments are not confined to mailing lists – they happen at conferences too and they are just part of the fabric of science. As long as the whole list does not descend into a chaos of snarky comments, I think it’s OK to let them get through. One possible remedy is for others to come to the defence of a victim of excessive snarkiness. I have seen that happen on this list sometimes, and other times have been tempted myself to intervene, though I usually have not been brave enough (especially when the snark source is someone famous). - Kurt From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.frmailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Darren Broom Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:36 AM To: Alan Hewat; Leopoldo Suescun Cc: rietveld_l@ill.frmailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi Alan Thanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to host additional files on the archive server. It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out. Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)? Best regards, Darren -Original Message- From: alan.he...@neutronoptics.commailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Sent: Sat, 9 May 2015 11:39:46 +0200 To: leopo...@fq.edu.uymailto:leopo...@fq.edu.uy Subject: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid sinful attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed Twitter, except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about no attachments as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.orghttp://www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple no attachments rule, so what would it be like policing a small attachments rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your small attachment. In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper
RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Hi KurtMaybe I should let others comment first but I would just like to say that I think a slightly harsh comment to an experienced person who has made a silly mistake is quite different to an abrupt and perhaps patronizing comment to a complete beginner who has asked a legitimate question.I have checked back and it was definitely the latter that Bill Reese was commenting on previously...Cheers,Darren-Original Message-From: ku...@asu.eduSent: Sun, 10 May 2015 13:26:28 +To: rietveld_l@ill.frSubject: RE: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. Hi, The subject of snarky comments is a fascinating one. I have definitely been the recipient of snarky comments for some of my more stupid posts on this list. The good thing about them is that it lets you know that you are saying or doing something, crystallographically speaking, that is really unpalatable to someone out there, and you might need to know this for your own good. I have definitely been chastised and have learned some things over the years by being forced to read a snarky response to one of my posts. But on the other hand, to a beginner a snarky comment can be damaging. However, these comments are not confined to mailing lists – they happen at conferences too and they are just part of the fabric of science. As long as the whole list does not descend into a chaos of snarky comments, I think it’s OK to let them get through. One possible remedy is for others to come to the defence of a victim of excessive snarkiness. I have seen that happen on this list sometimes, and other times have been tempted myself to intervene, though I usually have not been brave enough (especially when the snark source is someone famous). - Kurt From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Darren Broom Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:36 AM To: Alan Hewat; Leopoldo Suescun Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. Hi Alan Thanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to "host" additional files on the archive server. It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out. Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)? Best regards, Darren -Original Message- From: alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Sent: Sat, 9 May 2015 11:39:46 +0200 To: leopo...@fq.edu.uy Subject: Apologies... The "No Attachment" rule. Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid "sinful" attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed "Twitter", except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about "no attachments" as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.orgI didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple "no attachments" rule, so what would it be like policing a "small attachments" rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your "small attachment". In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of examples in the published literature if you are looking for evidence of regression. So where are the "Apologies"? There are no
RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Hi Rievelders, Although I have gone in the past years a long away from daily rietvelding, from time to time I can't resist my temptation to comment on some posts (OK, if the cap fits ... :-) and some of the comments could be well called snarky. But if you read that someone i) in facts asks people to solve his problem ASAP, or ii) a beginner without knowledge of elementary crystallography tries to refine ADP of a cubic special position, because a SW permits and complains about matrix problems, or iii) someone attempts quantitative standardless phase analysis of mixtures of disordered minerals whose structures are at maximum just estimated ... etc., etc.. All right, you may accuse me of going too far, or of exaggerating but isn't it at least half true ? If it is a PhD student I always ask where's his/her supervisor ? We could also ask the companies who claim that perfect (and I simply must add here : though physically or statistically impossible - not to speak of common sense ... ) results can be easily achieved when their SW is applied. Should we tell them or better not as are we afraid ( I am not, I do not apply :-) of loosing their sponsorships ? Best, Lubo On Sun, 10 May 2015, Kurt Leinenweber wrote: Hi, The subject of snarky comments is a fascinating one. I have definitely been the recipient of snarky comments for some of my more stupid posts on this list. The good thing about them is that it lets you know that you are saying or doing something, crystallographically speaking, that is really unpalatable to someone out there, and you might need to know this for your own good. I have definitely been chastised and have learned some things over the years by being forced to read a snarky response to one of my posts. But on the other hand, to a beginner a snarky comment can be damaging. However, these comments are not confined to mailing lists ? they happen at conferences too and they are just part of the fabric of science. As long as the whole list does not descend into a chaos of snarky comments, I think it?s OK to let them get through. One possible remedy is for others to come to the defence of a victim of excessive snarkiness. I have seen that happen on this list sometimes, and other times have been tempted myself to intervene, though I usually have not been brave enough (especially when the snark source is someone famous). - Kurt From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Darren Broom Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 3:36 AM To: Alan Hewat; Leopoldo Suescun Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr Subject: RE: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Hi Alan Thanks for the explanation. The point about the archive seems to me to be the most persuasive - I see what you mean. Providing the file sharing links stay active that does ensure the archive remains useful without having to host additional files on the archive server. It does seem that removing any attachments automatically would be the best solution. Hopefully Song Zhen's suggestion will help sort that out. Incidentally, Jon nicely illustrated one of the things about the list that I really appreciate, by posting an interesting link that I hadn't seen before and probably wouldn't have come across otherwise. Also, I wondered if you could set up SYMPA so that it strips emails of any unnecessary snarkiness (above a predefined threshold)? Best regards, Darren -Original Message- From: alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Sent: Sat, 9 May 2015 11:39:46 +0200 To: leopo...@fq.edu.uy Subject: Apologies... The No Attachment rule. Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid sinful attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed Twitter, except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about no attachments as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple no attachments rule, so what would it be like policing a small attachments
Apologies... The No Attachment rule.
Dear Rietveld list. Good to see so many people asking for the list to be continued. And even an example of an interesting scientific question immediately answered by an expert. Encouraging. So why do I forbid sinful attachments ? (No, it's not because I'm getting old and snarky, though we all do eventually :-) Think of the Rietveld list as a kind of relaxed Twitter, except that you are not limited to 140 characters. And what about Google's decision this month to favour sites that can be used on a mobile phone ? Yes, even oldies use mobile phones for email. SMS is another example of beauty in brevity. Then the Rietveld Archive is an excellent record of past discussions - without the attachments. Messages that rely on attachments are then often incomprehensible - look up that message on https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ Frankly, if you need more than that, put it on a webserver with a link to it. Such links are preserved in the archive. If you see my own warning about no attachments as an attachment :-) perhaps you should check how your email client is set up. Or tell me how I can do it differently with SYMPA www.sympa.org I didn't design the mail server nor the mail archive. Clearly, it is difficult to enforce a simple no attachments rule, so what would it be like policing a small attachments rule ? Even if you personally have lots of space for email, our webserver (for which we don't pay) would still have to distribute ~1500 copies of your small attachment. In this particular case, a figure from an unpublished paper was published and criticised out of context. Is that really fair? If it's from a referee's copy we shouldn't even refer to it, let alone publish it. If it's a pre-print, just publish a link to it. But there are already plenty of examples in the published literature if you are looking for evidence of regression. So where are the Apologies? There are none :-) Excuse me is what people say when they elbow their way through a crowd. (I only do that when I really need to). So if you really need to attach a document, go ahead. After all, you can still read the list on the archive. Alan __ * Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE * alan.he...@neutronoptics.com +33.476.98.41.68 http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat __ ++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list alan.he...@neutronoptics.com Send commands to lists...@ill.fr eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++
