Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread david
Actually, this David was only semi-joking about the matrix editor. I 
look at pieces of programs as resource costs. Resources spent on the 
matrix editor are not available for use on what I consider more 
important parts of the program. For what it's worth, I've have liked 
matrix editors for music. It's like trying to read a player piano score: 
useless to anything except machines. (Like writing a score in Lilypond 
using a text editor.)

But RG is very flexible and I enjoy that.

On 05/07/2012 02:36 PM, David Tisdell wrote:
 When I am writing, I almost always begin with the notation editor.
 Vitally important tool. One of the things I like about RG is that it
 adapts well whatever your approach to composition.

 Dave

 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:07 PM, PMA wrote:

 Abrolag wrote:
   On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
   PMApeterarmstr...@aya.yale.edu
 mailto:peterarmstr...@aya.yale.edu  wrote:
  
   david wrote:
   ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
  
   For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.
  
   methinks david was having his little joke ;-)
  
 i saw the  ;-)  but didn't get it.  sorry, naive me.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Richard Bown
Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was I 
probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got bored 
of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt to use 
them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.

Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as and 
when.  And if.

Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be nice 
to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black 
/italics.  But yes, we've been here before..



On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree on the More bang for the buck on a Windows port but JACK already 
 runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise, 
 the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that is 
 true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It may be 
 easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I can't say for 
 sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block on Windows 
 because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.
 
 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy idragos...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
  Perhaps as a starting point we could shake the tree for developers on
  Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
  The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are worked
  out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
  but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working on
  the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get more
  involved.
 
 I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
 can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
 maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
 we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
 Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
 every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
 help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
 stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
 like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
 worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
 definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
 since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
 and have MIDI  Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
 provide.
 
 --
 Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
 
 In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
 it would overturn the world.
 -- Jelaleddin Rumi
 
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread David Tisdell
The attempt at a Mac port was done before the codebase had been moved to
qt. It was installed through fink. I exchanged email with the person who
had tried it and he had run into significant  problems because of KDE
dependencies and he gave up.
Nice to hear about the commercial version of Ardour that runs on Windows.
That gives lots of hope for doing the same with Rosegarden; especially
since Richard is focusing on the MIDI components first.

Dave

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Richard Bown 
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:

 Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was
 I probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got
 bored of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt
 to use them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.

 Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as
 and when.  And if.

 Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be
 nice to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black
 /italics.  But yes, we've been here before..



 On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree on the More bang for the buck on a Windows port but JACK already
 runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise,
 the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that
 is true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It
 may be easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I
 can't say for sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block
 on Windows because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.

 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy idragos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Perhaps as a starting point we could shake the tree for developers on
  Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of
 origin.
  The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are
 worked
  out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do
 that
  but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working
 on
  the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get
 more
  involved.

 I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
 can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
 maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
 we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
 Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
 every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
 help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
 stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
 like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
 worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
 definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
 since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
 and have MIDI  Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
 provide.

 --
 Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
 
 In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
 it would overturn the world.
 -- Jelaleddin Rumi


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] ROSEGARDEN 12.04, codename Freedom RELEASED

2012-05-08 Thread D. Michael McIntyre
On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, j...@it-he.org wrote:

 Is it possible to disable this behaviour by default?

No, but please do experiment and see how you fare.  The theory is you should 
only experience the minor inconvenience of having to go set a bunch of things 
from 'auto' to 'fixed' and you should be on your merry way.

The core changes involved in this are deeply rooted and all but impossible to 
revert at this point, but I'm definitely interested in use cases like yours, 
and if it turns out this new work is completely throwing you under a bus, 
we'll have to figure out some practical accommodation, and we will.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread PMA
D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
 On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:

 Waay too hard on yourself.
 You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!

 There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go somewhere
 and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my family as
 a kid.  That was 1987.

Well, your constitution must be incredible.
After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
long since!

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Richard Bown

  There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go
 somewhere
  and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my
 family as
  a kid.  That was 1987.

 Well, your constitution must be incredible.
 After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
 long since!


I got converted into taking holidays by my wife - I never saw the point
twenty years ago.  Now I don't want to stay home.  That's where your rg
development time went..

R
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Mario Moles
Hello everyone! 
That's a lot that does not speak in this ml-list! 
I also have something to say on the future of rosegarden. I really like 
rosegarden. But I'm a maniac lilypond, mainly by Frescobaldi, because 
exploitation of power by lilypond rosegarden is, forgive me, ridiculous and 
depressing:
1) the management of the position of breaks does not exist and creates file.pdf 
terrible.
2) is also not possible to setup the page layout.
My use of rosegarden boils down to this:
1) Rapid re-edit of file.midi frescobaldi created for a quick check of the 
sound changes.
I repeat: I really like rosegarden, but I also think that a better integration 
of lilypond would attract many potential users.
Best regards and w rosegarden!
-- 
oiram/bin/selom
Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni.
MIB 
Frescobaldi 
Rosegarden --
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Chris Cannam
On 8 May 2012 08:23, Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:
 I have failed.

 What absolute self indulgent rubbish.

Though a very nicely constructed extended metaphor.

I think you're sort-of right that the proper answer ought to be a nice
brisk one about how it's just going the way it has to go and if it
isn't working out for you, well, those are the breaks. And it's been
around this long, people are still enjoying it and developers are
doing new things -- what should we do next to build on this?

But you and I have had a lot of time off from this project, and I
guess both of us did that because we felt a bit like Michael -- as if
every little bug fix ended up being an exploratory dive down a
stinking rabbit hole and each small new idea was a major project to be
written up on a board in marker pen and deliberated over for three
months because it would inevitably break half a dozen other things.
This isn't a codebase that lends itself well to an enjoyable agile
process.

I'm with PMA that you're being far too hard on yourself, Michael -- in
a project like this you don't need to be in a position where you have
an answer for everything. You've been pretty vital to this program's
survival so far, but you know, it is only a computer program -- you
could walk away tomorrow and just see what happens to it. It'd
probably stick around one way or another, and if it didn't, that might
be enough to suggest it didn't matter much to enough people in the
first place. I'm not suggesting you should necessarily do that, but it
might be no bad thing to remember that you can.


Chris

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