Re: [Rosegarden-user] Audio segments not showing their contents (waveform)

2012-08-28 Thread D. Michael McIntyre
On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 06:40:32 AM Holger Marzen wrote:

 Give Claws mail a try if it has to be clickable.
 I use (al)pine for more than a decade. No buttons, no cry.

I'm trying everything from scratch with a completely virgin user directory, 
and making more headway.

I've still got light years to go.  No sound anywhere ever.  Imagine that, 
right?

On the bright side, I'll be able to tell everybody what they need to do to get 
Rosegarden working on 12.04.1 after another 500 or 600 hours of this.

Sigh.
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...

2012-08-28 Thread Lorenzo Sutton
I can feel your pain... When I faced upgrade threats for my Ubuntu 10.04 
LTS I sensed something had taken the wrong direction with Ubuntu.
While Ubuntu was the distro which really helped me to get seriously and 
permanently into Linux I felt it was taking the wrong decisions at each 
upgrade. Ubuntu had worked out of the box on my laptop for wifi and most 
importantly audio (and mostlt rosegarden itself, Pd and ardour) - then 
came the pulseaudio pushed onto the desktop even if still barely beta...

So I decided to switch to 'mother' debian, and understood how naive I 
had been to consider it too 'complicated' and favour ubuntu, and that 
getting hardware to work isn't that hard really.

And now I'm happily using debian testing XFCE (so popular for GNOME 2 
'expats') after savouring a half hour of both GNOME 3 and Unity 
insanity. And it looks like XFCE will be the default in the next debian 
release.

As for the so-called progress thing, it's hard to tell, many people who 
are starting their Linux adventure like Unity or GNOME 3 'easy-ness'. 
What I know is that when I have to open a Windows or OSX desktop the 
restraint feeling is strong and pervasive, the closeness. On linux even 
on a GNOME 3 machine I have that feeling of 'well you could always 
install XFCE or something lighter alongside... it's always refreshing. 
It's still a rich and varied ecosystem, often a bit chaotic and 
dispersive - but, at least in my humble opinion, more fun :)

Lorenzo.



On 27/08/12 16:08, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
 I'm writing from GMail in a web browser.  I hate using a web browser
 for email, and have been using KMail for over 10 years.  I love KMail.

 So somewhere after midnight I got the upgrade notification thing from
 my running Kubuntu 10.04 LTS that 12.04.1 was available.  Interesting.
   That's the first time in years I've actually gotten one of those
 notifications.

 I decided to burn some hours fooling around, and give it a go.  How
 much breakage could there be?

 The clicky link thing failed immediately with error code 1, but no
 matter.  I googled it, and figured out I should run some sudo thing
 from the command line.

 That failed about five times in a row, with several minutes between
 each iteration, because I had a lot of trouble freeing sufficient
 space on /var, but it did eventually get me there without any
 additional issues.

 I was pretty impressed that it replaced several thousand packages
 without giving me the sense that anything too awful was going to get
 broken.  My old installation was, well, old, and full of random little
 cruft nuggets.

 So that was around 0400 when it first booted, and here it is around
 1000 by now, and I'm posting this from my shiny new GNOME Classic
 desktop.  I took one look at the non-classic GNOME and could scarcely
 decipher the completely mutilated train wreck of a thing it called a
 desktop, so I tried the classic version instead, and it looks...
 Well, identical.  They're both just spectacularly awful.  I can't
 imagine why anybody would use this hideous piece of shit for more time
 than it took to find the logout button.

 Oh, and every single word I type is in red, because the language stuff
 apparently got screwed up in all this too.

 As for KDE?  Forget about KDE.  Hours of googling errors later, I
 finally gave up and installed GNOME, which is completely unusable, but
 at least it doesn't fail instantly with a cryptic error for which
 there is no solution in all of google space.

 There are many references to the lnusertemp thingie not working, going
 back for years and years, but not a single hint or tip contained in a
 single one of them was useful.  Not unless you consider it progress
 that I graduated from an instant failure to X11 coming up in a black
 screen with an endless stream of meaningless errors on the console
 anyway.

 I've been doing my bit to make all of this better for 10 years now,
 and it's extremely depressing to see that everything is just as bad,
 if not worse, than it was the first time I tried Linux 11 years ago.
 This is progress?  This is a completely and hopelessly broken train
 wreck.

 I guess I have to figure out how to use the GNOME crap to download and
 burn an ISO and do a clean install.  Maybe that will work.

 My computer had been up for almost 18 months before I decided to try
 upgrading it.  You'd think I would have learned that for every stable
 thing in Linux there are 50,000 hopeless train wrecks in between.

 I tire of this so-called progress.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...

2012-08-28 Thread Mario Moles
Dear Michael 
I've never used Ubuntu so I can not talk about it!
I use ROSA-2012 (Russian version of Mandriva) http://www.rosalab.com/ 
with kde4.8.4 and the repo MIB http://mib.pianetalinux.org/blog/ which ROSA 
takes the kernel-nrj (low-latency). I, like you, am a user kmail since it 
exists! Even this mail comes from kmail! I use kmail starting kontact! Kmail 
akonadi needs to work so be sure to install all the modules akonadi! I think 
we all know that when you rewrite software to make a jump this jump is never 
painless! Also I Mandriva-Rosa I suffered when it was new kmail-kontact
but now I use it with sufficient satisfaction! Problems still exist with 
filters to sort messages into different folders but nothing terribly 
irritating! I am sure that in future releases these little problems will be 
solved! Hang in there! Support kde and kmail! Revolutions require work!
Greetings and good luck!
-- 
oiram/bin/selom
Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni.
Linux
MIB Lilypond Frescobaldi Rosegarden --
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...

2012-08-28 Thread Jim Cochrane
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:08:36 -0400
D. Michael McIntyre michael.mcint...@rosegardenmusic.com wrote:

 I'm writing from GMail in a web browser.  I hate using a web browser
 for email, and have been using KMail for over 10 years.  I love KMail.
 
 So somewhere after midnight I got the upgrade notification thing from
 my running Kubuntu 10.04 LTS that 12.04.1 was available.  Interesting.
  That's the first time in years I've actually gotten one of those
 notifications.

IMO, the IT world is in a major transition period, which started
somewhere around 4 years ago (probably with the iphone), and will
continue until, perhaps, somewhere between 2016 and 2020.  (Hopefully,
it will not extend much beyond that - otherwise, it will be more
painful than some can bear.)

As most (probably everyone) on this list knows, the main transition at
this point is from the desktop (GUI on a PC - Windows for most
people, but also OSX and Linux) to either or both of:

  - mobile/tablet-based apps, most of which make heavy use of web
and/or internet connections.

  - web-based applications, where the main characters are the browser
and a web server, a group of web-servers, and/or cloud-centric
systems (which, perhaps, is a synonym for group of web-servers).

For both of these options, most of the work will be done on servers on
the web and the user's computer will be mainly a client making use of
services running on these servers.

Unfortunately, this transition is causing, and will continue to cause,
major growing pains for those who are used to (i.e., almost all of
us) the current system/paradigm.  These growing pains are showing up in
the Linux world as, for example, the GNOME team's desire to push
their project into this new world/paradigm, and their users' resulting
pain in finding things don't work as they used to - the transition is
only, perhaps, 1/4 to 1/3 complete, and how it will actually turn out
in the end is known only to those who both have access to, and have
been willing to use, a future-oriented time machine (which is, likely,
no one).  Everyone else has to guess, and it's likely that most guesses
will be off by quite a bit.

In the meantime we are stuck with these painful transitional
technologies, such as GNOME 3 and Ubuntu's Unity, which to many people
seem like (and perhaps are) monstrosities.  I don't think the Linux
world is alone in being affected by these transitional pains - many
people are wondering what the fuck they are going to do when Windows 8
(or Metro, or whatever-the-fuck it's being called now) comes out.  It's
trying to bridge this transition, too, and, IMO, is not doing a very
good job of it.  (Prediction:  Microsoft will be, in about 10 to
15 years, the Sears of high-tech companies - they just don't have the
right philosophy, vision, and creativity needed to keep up.)  Apple may
do better than both MS and Linux, but their position at or near the top
in the near future is nowhere near guaranteed.

And - again in the meantime - we have to make do with what we currently
have in this confusing transitional period.  The people (IMO) likely
to feel the most pain in these times are the pseudo-geeks: those like
Michael and most of the rest of us on this mailing list who have a fair
amount of geeky skills/talents, but not enough to know how to maneuver
around the obstacle course of changes resulting from this transition.
The more common naive Joe/Sally user can for the most part trust MS (at
least until MS becomes a has-been, which will take several years) or
Apple to tell them what to do and will likely not have enough demands
such that they experience great pain (maybe a little, but not like
having, say, an amputation).  And the true-geek will be able to use
their pain to direct themselves to a workable, perhaps
partly-hacked-together, solution.  But the pseudo geek will likely have
the demands to insist on something better than what's available, but
not the skills to whip something up that will fulfill what they need.
Result: mucho pain.

But - to allude to the subject of this thread -:  I don't think this
automatically leads to the conclusion that things look bad for the
future of Linux.  Linux is used, probably, (mainly because of Android)
in more devices these days than any other major OS (i.e., Windows,
Windows-phone, IOS, OSX).  And Linux appears to be the de facto OS for
most embedded devices these days.  Also, Linux is what Chrome OS is
based on - another future-web/cloud-oriented technology.  With all this
reliance on Linux and with all the talented/skilled developers on this
planet with approximately 7 billion people, it seems likely to me that
something very good and useful will emerge in the next 5 to 10 years.

It may take a while, and we may have to go through quite a bit of pain
until then, but I think it's likely something workable for us
pseudo-geeks will show up well before we die.  Until then, I'm finding
KDE4 on Fedora 17 quite workable.  (I've been using KDE for many 

Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...

2012-08-28 Thread Noel Darlow
Hi

 IMO, the IT world is in a major transition period

Actually I think we're in a major cloud-bloviation period. Sure it has
its place but I expect it to be a parallel option to desktops, not
a replacement. It's a kind of IT Lite for those with several
lightweight devices who don't really need the power of a modern
computer. There are always going to be security issues handing your
data over to someone else and of course the obvious one of how do you
get any work done when the network is down. 

Desktops are cheap and highly modifiable and will last for as long as
people have desks to put them on.


Noel

PS: for a highly tweakable system with an excellent package manager I
recommend gentoo and http://www.aperiplus.co.uk/downloads/gentool.htm.
Bootable backups take all the pain out of upgrades.

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[Rosegarden-user] Printing staff formatting suggestions

2012-08-28 Thread k-12


LillyPond sounds like something really nice, I say sounds like because I 
haven't been able to print with it yet, or even see a print-preview. I've just 
installed Musix-2.0, I'm next going to set up the printing on it (wifi net 
printer).

When LillyPond is buggy or missing maybe a simpler other than lillypond print 
would suffice. It's a real pain to have to do captures and then load them into 
gimp for even rudimentary printing.

The score formatting really should give the composer the option to add/remove 
measures AND more importantly decide which measures will go on which line 
(often to follow lyrics for example). I can also think of a situatiion when I 
may want to later add guitar tabs, so there I would want to control spacing as 
well as the number of lines to the page to leave room between them.

Ditto for the indenting, it seems to be a thing of the past in writing anyway 
so maybe options are needed?





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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Printing staff formatting suggestions

2012-08-28 Thread David Tisdell
Rosegarden uses Lilypond for printing. You should be able to print directly
from Rosegarden as long as Lilypond is installed. I use Suse as well. I
seem to remember needng to manually install lilypond with a script because
i had trouble finding an rpm for suse but it wasn't a big deal.

Dave


On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 10:47 AM, k...@trixtar.org wrote:



 LillyPond sounds like something really nice, I say sounds like because I
 haven't been able to print with it yet, or even see a print-preview. I've
 just installed Musix-2.0, I'm next going to set up the printing on it (wifi
 net printer).

 When LillyPond is buggy or missing maybe a simpler other than lillypond
 print would suffice. It's a real pain to have to do captures and then load
 them into gimp for even rudimentary printing.

 The score formatting really should give the composer the option to
 add/remove measures AND more importantly decide which measures will go on
 which line (often to follow lyrics for example). I can also think of a
 situatiion when I may want to later add guitar tabs, so there I would want
 to control spacing as well as the number of lines to the page to leave room
 between them.

 Ditto for the indenting, it seems to be a thing of the past in writing
 anyway so maybe options are needed?






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Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...

2012-08-28 Thread jimmy


On Tue, 28 Aug 2012, Jim Cochrane m_l-...@business.jimcochrane.info wrote:

 As most (probably everyone) on this list knows, the main
 transition at
 this point is from the desktop (GUI on a PC - Windows for
 most
 people, but also OSX and Linux) to either or both of:
 
   - mobile/tablet-based apps, most of which make heavy
 use of web
     and/or internet connections.
 
   - web-based applications, where the main characters
 are the browser
     and a web server, a group of web-servers,
 and/or cloud-centric
     systems (which, perhaps, is a synonym for
 group of web-servers).
 
 For both of these options, most of the work will be done on
 servers on
 the web and the user's computer will be mainly a client
 making use of
 services running on these servers.

I have seen enough to say that, sure, there is some changes.  But most of them 
are the numerous companies trying to one-up each other with so claimed 
innovation.  Just happens those things are new code base with little testing, 
trying to claim first to market.  So the users are guinea pigs.

The *buntu distros are also dumbing down the user experience the same way 
Windows, Macs, Cell phones are.  They claim to make things simple for the 
users.  I'd say they want to keep the users from knowing too much, and that 
there are other ways of doing things, not just what presented by the GUI.

The software industry have had many server-centric, then PC-centric, now back 
to server-centric (cloud, web-apps...)  They are just the companies to sell new 
softwares along with suport and service contracts... churning the market for 
new revenues.  Abandoned softwares need support contracts, or migration cost of 
developing for the newest trend today.

Sure the cell phone and tablet with wireless capabilities add a little bit more 
to the flexibilities, but again, they are driven by large software companies's 
drumming up of new revenue sources.



 In the meantime we are stuck with these painful
 transitional
 technologies, such as GNOME 3 and Ubuntu's Unity, which to
 many people
 seem like (and perhaps are) monstrosities.  I don't
 think the Linux
 world is alone in being affected by these transitional pains
 - many
 people are wondering what the fuck they are going to do when
 Windows 8
 (or Metro, or whatever-the-fuck it's being called now) comes
 out.

No we don't have to stick with the new default desktop or default GUI the 
*buntu chose to use.  You can install any other desktops and use that.  You 
don't have to stick with the PulseAudio, you can disable it, or uninstall it.  
If that's too much work to fight the current within the distro, perhaps switch 
to a more customizable distro is less of a hassle in the long run.

Just as many of us abandoned Windows because they have made it hell to back up 
and restore the OS to/from bare hard drive.  And with the Knoppix liveCd of a 
dozen years or so ago, it's a whole new world of simpler data recovery, and 
installation of Linux.  We can decide what we use, not what they try force us 
to use.

The more we learn the underlying components that make up our system and tools 
available, the better we are to make the computer work the way we want.  Not 
how they want us to do, their way.

I have seen enough of the churning changes.  Unity is only available on *buntu, 
because none of the other distros care about it at the moment.  I will stick 
with what works and not be guinea pigs.  Thanks, but no thanks.


 And the true-geek will be
 able to use
 their pain to direct themselves to a workable, perhaps
 partly-hacked-together, solution.  But the pseudo geek
 will likely have
 the demands to insist on something better than what's
 available, but
 not the skills to whip something up that will fulfill what
 they need.
 Result: mucho pain.

Well so-called true geeks are just people who believe they have seen enough to 
know that Linux/Unix can be customized however they want.  They are not the 
know-it-all either.  They spent long hours to learn how things are done and 
replicated those scripts and programs, learning from open-source code available 
to them.  I simply say that the geeks are just determined to get it done be 
cause they it can be done.

Pseuodo geeks are either newbies, or wannabe's who haven't spent time to learn 
how things work, or are afraid of spending time to learn.

Most people who have spent time to learn how to get jackd/qjackctl, 
fluidsynth/qsynth, rosegarden, MIDI working on a low-latency Linux kernel is a 
Linux MIDI geek already.  Perhaps not a Linux sys-admin geek, or Bash script 
geek, Perl geek, Python geek...  It's just a matter of how much one really 
wants to learn, and spent the appropriate time to learn, that's all.  The other 
side of that is ignorance.

Jimmy




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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Printing staff formatting suggestions

2012-08-28 Thread k-12


On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 12:15:54 -0400
David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Rosegarden uses Lilypond for printing. You should be able to print directly
 from Rosegarden as long as Lilypond is installed. I use Suse as well. I
 seem to remember needng to manually install lilypond with a script because
 i had trouble finding an rpm for suse but it wasn't a big deal.

The Suse 2.12.3-8.9 rpm was installed, even updated 2.15.42-6 but every attempt 
to print with either crashed. So I installed the source 2.16.0-1 from the 
project site and it's printing ok.

Thanks



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Printing staff formatting suggestions

2012-08-28 Thread k-12


On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 12:15:54 -0400
David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Rosegarden uses Lilypond for printing. You should be able to print directly
 from Rosegarden as long as Lilypond is installed. I use Suse as well. I
 seem to remember needng to manually install lilypond with a script because
 i had trouble finding an rpm for suse but it wasn't a big deal.

BTW which suse are you using (I'm on 12.1)  how did you get rosegarden to make 
a sound?

I just installed Musix-2.0 which is OK buty if I have to boot a studio system 
just for rosegarden than I might as well boot windows  be able to do other 
things while waiting for inspiration instead of perspiration :-)





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