Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 27/10/12 14:27, Abrolag wrote: On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:55:20 -0400 D. Michael McIntyre rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/26/2012 02:46 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Well didn't think it would start such conceited exchanges. Hope you don't think I was being conceited. If I come off that way, it's just because I'm constantly in a huge hurry, and I'm being terse. I certainly feel like that most times, that's why fingers are sometimes faster than the brain... Actually, I think Lorenzo meant concerted :) Wops indeed... sorry about that, as I said fingers sometimes go faster than brain :| ... It was meant as a positive remark about the quick community reaction that's why I also ended my email with: Anyway happy to see the rg community is active and alive! Lorenzo. -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 08:58:29 +0100 Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsut...@gmail.com wrote: snip Wops indeed... sorry about that, as I said fingers sometimes go faster than brain :| ... It was meant as a positive remark about the quick community reaction that's why I also ended my email with: Anyway happy to see the rg community is active and alive! Lorenzo. Actually, I have the theory that computers have a malign intelligence dedicated to frustrating our efforts. Have you noticed that whenever you're just casually fiddling about, not caring much about the results, absolutely *nothing* ever goes wrong, but the more important the matter is the greater number of issues crop up? Soon we will reach the stage when simply walking up to a computer will result in a message flashing up on the screen: You are about to make a mistake -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/26/2012 02:46 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Well didn't think it would start such conceited exchanges. Hope you don't think I was being conceited. If I come off that way, it's just because I'm constantly in a huge hurry, and I'm being terse. Anyway, looks like Tom restored the existing behavior for you. Check it out! -- D. Michael McIntyre -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:55:20 -0400 D. Michael McIntyre rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/26/2012 02:46 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Well didn't think it would start such conceited exchanges. Hope you don't think I was being conceited. If I come off that way, it's just because I'm constantly in a huge hurry, and I'm being terse. Anyway, looks like Tom restored the existing behavior for you. Check it out! Actually, I think Lorenzo meant concerted :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/27/2012 07:27 AM, Abrolag wrote Actually, I think Lorenzo meant concerted :) I was wondering about that, LOL! Certainly nobody was coming across as conceited to me. -~Chris -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:55:20 -0400 D. Michael McIntyre rosegarden.trumpe...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/26/2012 02:46 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Well didn't think it would start such conceited exchanges. Hope you don't think I was being conceited. If I come off that way, it's just because I'm constantly in a huge hurry, and I'm being terse. Anyway, looks like Tom restored the existing behavior for you. Check it out! Actually, I think Lorenzo meant concerted :) Heh, thanks for clearing that up. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/25/2012 05:16 PM, Tom Breton (Tehom) wrote: But what's puzzling me most is that I can't reproduce it in the current working version. I did what I thought the steps were, but I must have missed something. First up, let's all get on the same page. I read Lorenzo's message again and as far as I can tell we're all still talking about playback, _not_ recording. If you found some weird recording thing, it's not what we're talking about. 1. Draw a segment on track 1 and put some junk in it, set it to repeat This is our noise making source. It repeats just so you have less junk to draw to slap the test together, and you could substitute a really long segment filled with lots and lots of junk (or even real music if you prefer!) 2. While it's playing, change the instrument on track 1 from #1 to #2, which also changes the channel from 1 to 2 in the process. Rosegarden 11.whatever I tested with this morning actually made the channel changes instantly. Al Thompson did a good job of summing up why I never noticed we used to do that: changing channels during playback is often a good way to experience mayhem. Now, apparently, we don't do that anymore. Change the instrument to #2 now and nothing happens until you interrupt and restart playback. Since the behavior changed, and it's apparently behavior at least one user has come to expect, it's officially a regression. Since two out of three users surveyed think changing channels while playback is rolling is a goofy thing to do anyway, it doesn't look much like it's worth taking on Batman to me. I don't have a strong opinion on any of this, and will go with the flow. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
My question: do MIDI program change messages at least work during playback? This is something that should be supported by any MIDI sequencer. -~Chris On 10/26/2012 04:25 AM, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: On 10/25/2012 05:16 PM, Tom Breton (Tehom) wrote: But what's puzzling me most is that I can't reproduce it in the current working version. I did what I thought the steps were, but I must have missed something. First up, let's all get on the same page. I read Lorenzo's message again and as far as I can tell we're all still talking about playback, _not_ recording. If you found some weird recording thing, it's not what we're talking about. 1. Draw a segment on track 1 and put some junk in it, set it to repeat This is our noise making source. It repeats just so you have less junk to draw to slap the test together, and you could substitute a really long segment filled with lots and lots of junk (or even real music if you prefer!) 2. While it's playing, change the instrument on track 1 from #1 to #2, which also changes the channel from 1 to 2 in the process. Rosegarden 11.whatever I tested with this morning actually made the channel changes instantly. Al Thompson did a good job of summing up why I never noticed we used to do that: changing channels during playback is often a good way to experience mayhem. Now, apparently, we don't do that anymore. Change the instrument to #2 now and nothing happens until you interrupt and restart playback. Since the behavior changed, and it's apparently behavior at least one user has come to expect, it's officially a regression. Since two out of three users surveyed think changing channels while playback is rolling is a goofy thing to do anyway, it doesn't look much like it's worth taking on Batman to me. I don't have a strong opinion on any of this, and will go with the flow. -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/25/2012 05:16 PM, Tom Breton (Tehom) wrote: But what's puzzling me most is that I can't reproduce it in the current working version. I did what I thought the steps were, but I must have missed something. First up, let's all get on the same page. I read Lorenzo's message again and as far as I can tell we're all still talking about playback, _not_ recording. If you found some weird recording thing, it's not what we're talking about. Oh, I see. Yes, I had found something different. Thank you for setting me straight! 1. Draw a segment on track 1 and put some junk in it, set it to repeat This is our noise making source. It repeats just so you have less junk to draw to slap the test together, and you could substitute a really long segment filled with lots and lots of junk (or even real music if you prefer!) 2. While it's playing, change the instrument on track 1 from #1 to #2, which also changes the channel from 1 to 2 in the process. Yes, that works to reproduce it. I'm going to have a look at it. I suspect it won't be that hard to fix. (Famous last words again) Tom Breton (Tehom) -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:36:27 -0400 Al Thompson althompso...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/25/2012 09:54 AM, S. Christian Collins wrote: I don't know that I've ever tried to change MIDI instrument/channel during playback using any music software. Is this something that other programs do? I've always auditioned my instrument changes live with a MIDI keyboard with playback stopped. Changing instruments (Patches) during playback is pretty common, and something I do fairly regularly. Changing channels, however, is usually a Very Bad Thing, that almost always results in hung notes, and unpredictable CC behavior, and most often requires a MIDI reset to straighten out. Ah yes. Ignore my previous comment :o I was thinking of patch and program changes, not channel changes! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
I'm going to have a look at it. I suspect it won't be that hard to fix. (Famous last words again) OK, I've fixed it. TrackButtons now reacts to changing the instrument by calling new function SequenceManager::segmentInstrumentChanged on each segment on the affected track. A bit quick-and-dirty: segmentInstrumentChanged just remaps the segment. There's a much faster way to do it but it'd be more complex and it's not clear that it needs to be that fast. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
My question: do MIDI program change messages at least work during playback? This is something that should be supported by any MIDI sequencer. -~Chris You're asking about program change messages that set the instrument to something different than what the track dialog at the left is showing? If I understand your question, that will work if you set fixed channel and uncheck Bank and Program in Instrument Parameters. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
Well didn't think it would start such conceited exchanges. I must admit I often do weird non-standard stuff such as connecting Rosegarden to Pd (through alsa-midi) and trying out stuff. Morale: I guess I can live with the no channel changes during playback and can see the drawbacks Al underlines, while see the need as most seem to agree with for Program changes. Sorry for the noise (this started 2 days before my conservatoire thesis discussion last week and I was probably in somewhat of a panic state). Anyway happy to see the rg community is active and alive! :) Lorenzo. On 26/10/12 19:58, Tom Breton (Tehom) wrote: I'm going to have a look at it. I suspect it won't be that hard to fix. (Famous last words again) OK, I've fixed it. TrackButtons now reacts to changing the instrument by calling new function SequenceManager::segmentInstrumentChanged on each segment on the affected track. A bit quick-and-dirty: segmentInstrumentChanged just remaps the segment. There's a much faster way to do it but it'd be more complex and it's not clear that it needs to be that fast. Tom Breton (Tehom) -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/26/2012 11:28 AM, S. Christian Collins wrote: My question: do MIDI program change messages at least work during playback? This is something that should be supported by any MIDI sequencer. This was all working reasonably the last time I looked. I haven't looked recently. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
[Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
Hi Michael, I'll try to summarize and be a little more detailed. I did some tests again with the latest SVN build. - Connect General MIDI Device to gmidimonitor (but any midi monitor will do) - Create a 2 bar segment with notes - Check the repeat segment ( this is totally irrelevant to the channel problem - it's just useful to set up lots of playback quickly, sorry if it generated confusion ) - Play - Instrument is set to #1 and channel is correctly 1 - Select a different instrument (channel) from the Instrument dropdown _while playing_ _This_ seems to be the problem. Until you stop and re-start play the channel is unchanged. I also noticed that now Channel is set to fixed by default for a new file (but I think this actually is irrelevant to the problem) So all that noise seems to sum up to: Instrument/channel won't be updated during playback. Hope it's clearer now. Should I add a bug report? Lorenzo. On 21/10/12 16:30, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: On 10/18/2012 05:10 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Try this wit ha a midi monitor connected to rosegarden (e.g. GMIDImonitor) and you'll see what I mean: create a small segment put some random notes in, put it in repeat mode start playing and changing the channels and setting channel to fixed. I can't seem to find a reasonable logic in what's going on :| Segment 1 bar long with 4 notes in it. Check. Hook up to KMidiMon. Check. Repeat mode is an imprecise description, so I'm not sure how to duplicate that. Attempt 1: Interpret repeat mode as set the segment to repeat. Hit play. Watch a jillion iterations of everything going on channel 1. Fail to repeat bug. Attempt 2: Interpret repeat mode as set a loop and put the transport in loop mode. Hit play. Watch a jillion iterations of everything going on channel 1. Fail to repeat bug. All of this started from scratch with a default autoload.rg from current SVN, so all the instruments had channels set to fixed from the beginning. Attempt 3: Change instrument #1 to auto. Repeat attempts 1 and 2 with identical results. Everything still on channel 1. Attempt 4: Save file in this state. Restart. Repeat attempts 1 and 2 with identical results. Everything still on channel 1. Attempt 5: Start messing with instrument #2. Same results ad infinitum. On a side note: the Channel auto thing seems to have broken all my .rg file previous to its introduction. Does this mean that it has backward broken .rg files? If I remember correctly, the way it's supposed to work is that since old .rg files contain no fixed/auto information, we have to pick one and set it to something, and we're supposed to be setting it to fixed. I'm being kind of terse here because I'm finally getting to this on my way to bed, but please don't take my terseness for a bad attitude on my part. I'm totally sincere about wanting to make sure there are no problems here. What I'm seeing right now is a distinct lack of weird or unexpected behavior. I suspect if there's any bad behavior to see, it's going to take a more complex test case than one segment with a few notes in it. If I see anything weird here, some of the controller traffic looks like it could be suspect. I'm not trying to think about that one yet. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/25/2012 07:38 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: - Instrument is set to #1 and channel is correctly 1 - Select a different instrument (channel) from the Instrument dropdown _while playing_ On 10/25/2012 09:54 AM, S. Christian Collins wrote: I don't know that I've ever tried to change MIDI instrument/channel during playback using any music software. Is this something that other programs do? I've always auditioned my instrument changes live with a MIDI keyboard with playback stopped. My reaction is about the same as Christian's here. MIDI sequencers can do that?! But some testing shows that yes, you should file it as a bug, Lorenzo. It turns out that it definitely is a regression. 1. Go back to Rosegarden 11.02 2. Put some notes in a segment on track 1 and repeat, to get a long stream of notes 3. Start playing 4. Go change the program on channel 1 on your synth (probably requires hardware to repeat) and listen to your notes playing on, say, a flute 5. Go change the instrument on track 1 from #1 to #2. Now you hear piano. The instrument change was instantaneous, and with it the channel. It also sent the piano program at the instrument change, wiping out the program I had pre-selected for channel 2 on my synth, so I would say 11.02's behavior was far from perfect too. It did, however, change instruments instantly. Do this with anything after the logical instruments change, and you have to stop playback and restart to pick up the instrument change. (I think. Did not test this bit hands on as I'm running out of time.) I consider this an official regression, but I'm willing to accept Holy crap, Batman, how the hell do we fix THAT?! as an answer from Tom too. It's worth chasing as a regression, but if this were a new issue, I don't think I'd be giving this much thought. It's pretty high up there on the effort scale, and low on the reward per number of users scale. Let's see what Tom says. Tom, I'm writing fast, so if any of this has you scratching your head, don't rush off trying to code anything, and give me a chance to put together a calmer and more organized explanation what we're going on about. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Instrument (midi channel) change is not updated during playback [WAS] Re: auto channel takes over and re-activates automatically
On 10/25/2012 09:54 AM, S. Christian Collins wrote: I don't know that I've ever tried to change MIDI instrument/channel during playback using any music software. Is this something that other programs do? I've always auditioned my instrument changes live with a MIDI keyboard with playback stopped. Changing instruments (Patches) during playback is pretty common, and something I do fairly regularly. Changing channels, however, is usually a Very Bad Thing, that almost always results in hung notes, and unpredictable CC behavior, and most often requires a MIDI reset to straighten out. -- --- My bands, CD projects, music, news, and pictures: http://www.lateralforce.com My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at: http://audioandmore.wordpress.com Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch; und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' - [Friedrich Nietzsche] -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
