Re: [Rosegarden-user] Jack freewheel and jack-midi and general thoughts

2019-07-25 Thread Lorenzo Sutton
Well... I have to resurrect this and be warned, as often with my posts, 
it is long :)


TL;DR: jack midi is not that easy nor optimal, so maybe re-prioritize 
LV2 with audio render of projects



After a few months of experimenting and discussing, I have come to the 
conclusion that I will have to contradict myself (or at least put some 
doubt) about this one.
I updaeted the feature requests but will add some thoughts on here. And 
this is knowing that both are huge undertakes...


So I had the impression (and still believe, at least conceptually), that 
jack midi + jack freewheel would be the right way to go following a 
'unix philosophy'. Now, it turns out that technically jack midi doen't 
automatically mean that you get jack freewheel ('farster than realtime') 
e.g. for export. And I tested this in various ways the most outstanding 
was by trying to use this to 'rended' from Ardour using midi and 
conencting it to a jack-midi application... Everything miserably failed 
and that's because (if I understood correctly the explanation I got in 
the Ardour IRC), jack freeheel while is bound to at the same bound but 
not checking constraints such as disk I/O.


This would explain e.g. how other projects are dealing with it... For 
instance this discussion on the Qtractor mailing list seems to more or 
less support my point: https://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/585


Now, back to LV2.
True: one can fire up (say) Carla and connect to it with alsa midi and 
then record the result to audio, but as discussed many times this is 
very cumbersome and time consuming, and whatever the technical solution 
I still strongly believe that having to do by hand something that a 
computer can conceptually do 'easily' sounds quite insane.


And let's face it, DSSI and LADSPA are dying formats, with very few 
people still making or even maintaining plugins (as well as distributions).
LV2 on the other hand seems to be quite active and now has a fairly rich 
ecosystem of plugin developers and users, opening up a nice palette of 
sound for rosegarden users.


I write this lengthy stuff because I _really_ (really!) like Rosegarden 
and wouldn't like to see it slowly die, so maybe having LV2 and audio 
render would bring (back) users and interest, which I think is always 
good for FLOSS under many aspects.


Ciao
Lorenzo.


On 24/02/19 09:22, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

Ted,

Gotcha... And I personally agree that #471 is higher priority than 
#462... :)


But I understand it's not something simple.

Lorenzo.

On 24/02/2019 03:28, Ted Felix wrote:

On 2/23/19 2:27 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
So the the question is: would it be time to think about jack-midi 
support in Rosegarden?


   It's been time to think about that for years.  Just no one has time 
to actually think about it.  See feature request #471.


https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/471/

But... maybe an upgrade to jack-midi would help making Rosegarden 
easier to interconnect and use more of the available hosts, synths etc.


   So prioritize feature request #471 above #462.

https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/462/

   That's helpful info.

   I wish I had time to undertake these projects.  If no one else 
does, I might get to them in the next decade or two.  Maybe by 2040?  
They are on my todo list.


Ted.


___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user






___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


Re: [Rosegarden-user] Jack freewheel and jack-midi and general thoughts

2019-02-24 Thread Lorenzo Sutton

Ted,

Gotcha... And I personally agree that #471 is higher priority than 
#462... :)


But I understand it's not something simple.

Lorenzo.

On 24/02/2019 03:28, Ted Felix wrote:

On 2/23/19 2:27 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
So the the question is: would it be time to think about jack-midi 
support in Rosegarden?


   It's been time to think about that for years.  Just no one has time 
to actually think about it.  See feature request #471.


https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/471/

But... maybe an upgrade to jack-midi would help making Rosegarden 
easier to interconnect and use more of the available hosts, synths etc.


   So prioritize feature request #471 above #462.

https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/462/

   That's helpful info.

   I wish I had time to undertake these projects.  If no one else does, 
I might get to them in the next decade or two.  Maybe by 2040?  They are 
on my todo list.


Ted.


___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user




___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


Re: [Rosegarden-user] Jack freewheel and jack-midi and general thoughts

2019-02-23 Thread ram
Hi guys,

I agree, JACK-MIDI would be more immediately useful that some other
features.  Right now, I use that JACK-ALSA bridge program to gain that bit
of extra functionality, but that is a bit awkward and kludgey.

Rich Marschall


> On 2/23/19 2:27 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
>> So the the question is: would it be time to think about jack-midi
>> support in Rosegarden?
>
>It's been time to think about that for years.  Just no one has time
> to actually think about it.  See feature request #471.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/471/
>
>> But... maybe an upgrade
>> to jack-midi would help making Rosegarden easier to interconnect and use
>> more of the available hosts, synths etc.
>
>So prioritize feature request #471 above #462.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/462/
>
>That's helpful info.
>
>I wish I had time to undertake these projects.  If no one else does,
> I might get to them in the next decade or two.  Maybe by 2040?  They are
> on my todo list.
>
> Ted.
>
>
> ___
> Rosegarden-user mailing list
> Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
>




___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


Re: [Rosegarden-user] Jack freewheel and jack-midi and general thoughts

2019-02-23 Thread Ted Felix

On 2/23/19 2:27 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
So the the question is: would it be time to think about jack-midi 
support in Rosegarden?


  It's been time to think about that for years.  Just no one has time 
to actually think about it.  See feature request #471.


https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/471/

But... maybe an upgrade 
to jack-midi would help making Rosegarden easier to interconnect and use 
more of the available hosts, synths etc.


  So prioritize feature request #471 above #462.

https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/feature-requests/462/

  That's helpful info.

  I wish I had time to undertake these projects.  If no one else does, 
I might get to them in the next decade or two.  Maybe by 2040?  They are 
on my todo list.


Ted.


___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user


[Rosegarden-user] Jack freewheel and jack-midi and general thoughts

2019-02-23 Thread Lorenzo Sutton

Dear all,

As some other people on LAU might have noticed a while back I tried to 
open a discussion on LAU about jack freewheele as a way to more easily 
interoperate between jack applications, the scenario being e.g. 
composing in Rosegarden (which as you know if my favourite sequencer and 
composition tool) using external synths/hosts (e.g. like Yoshimi but 
also e.g. linuxsampler or Carla) and then 'exporting' the result to 
audio 'faster than realtime'. [0][1]
I also started a similar discussion specifically in the yoshimi mailing 
list (yoshimi also being a synth I heavily use in tandem with 
Rosegarden)...



If I understand correctly freewheeling is currently mostly used in DAWs 
such as Ardour or Qtractor for exporting a whole session. Cadence-Render 
[1] also seems to use this mechanism.


From the various discussions and reading documentation online it really 
seems that in order for freewheeling to work one mainly needs:

- JACK transport (I think in 'slave' mode)
- jack-midi

So the the question is: would it be time to think about jack-midi 
support in Rosegarden?


There is also another side point that might be relevant here: the more 
time passes the more the DSSI and LADSP olny plugin support in 
rosegarden become obsolete. Personally I wouldn't be pushing for, say, 
LV2 or (Linux) VST supports *in* Rosegarden, for me connecting 
Rosegarden to external synths and hosts works just fine (better I would 
say), as I like the idea for composing, *sequencing* and midi, which are 
a different beast compared to say audio editing. But... maybe an upgrade 
to jack-midi would help making Rosegarden easier to interconnect and use 
more of the available hosts, synths etc.


Just some ideas :)


[0] 
http://jackaudio.org/files/docs/html/group__ServerControl.html#gad65c741a1d1d2fb09efacf51437b841a
[1] 
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2016-November/thread.html#106691
[2] 
https://www.freelists.org/post/yoshimi/Crazy-feature-idea-Offline-wav-file-generation-from-midi-and-state-file

[3] https://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Applications:Cadence-Render


___
Rosegarden-user mailing list
Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user