Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD

2012-05-17 Thread Chris Cannam
On 17 May 2012 09:10, Gary G. happyr...@yahoo.com wrote:
 How do you attach anything to this Listserv?  Actually is it a Listserv or
 an NNTP server?

It's a mailing list, i.e. like a listserv though not actually running
listserv software.

http://rosegardenmusic.com/support/lists/

Gmane provides a web interface and NNTP interface for a number of
mailing lists, including ours -- we don't particularly support or
endorse them, but the interface can be useful for some.

If you don't like Gmane, subscribe to the list directly via email
instead. Subscription details can be found through the page above.


Chris

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD

2012-05-17 Thread jimmy

On 17 May 2012 09:10, Gary G. happyrat1@... wrote:
 How do you attach anything to this Listserv?  Actually is it a Listserv or
 an NNTP server?

If you use gmame to read and post to this mailing list, I don't see any obvious 
way to attach files through their simple web interface.

As Chris C. said, you can subscribe (using one of your email addresses).  It 
may be better to use a separate email address (a throw-away-able account) other 
than your personal email accounts for friends and family.

Several Rosegarden mailing lists are at:

   http://rosegardenmusic.com/support/lists/

this particular mailing list is the User list.  Once you subscribed to it 
with your email, any email addressed to

   rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net

is a post to the mailing list.  You can attach files to such emails if needed.

Jimmy



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-16 Thread Gary G .
Andy andy-nntp23@... writes:

 
 Gary G. wrote:
 
  It looks like 7 years ago the developers of Rosegarden had indeed been
  developing such a script.
  
  A fellow by the name of Pedro Lopez-Cabanillos was working on exactly this
  problem with a perl script called ins2rgd.pl  Somehow it seems the project
  simply vanished or lost interest.
 
 Actually I just checked and that script is still included in the current
 rosegarden source code tarball, you can find it under /scripts/.
 
 Here are some instructions on how to use it:
 
 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.rosegarden.user/5102
 
 If the rgd file format and the ins file format hasn't changed since 2005 ,
 then the script should still work fine.
 
 Let us know how you get on with it.

The thing is, that most of us don't install Rosegarden from Tarballs.
99% of us use whatever package manager comes with our distros.  I can
state categorically that there is no such script included with the
*buntu distros out there.

The command line syntax is listed within the comments of the script itself.

Anyway, neither here nor there, it seems to work ok with the program
patches and controllers but seems to have trouble interpreting the combi
patches on my Korg TR.  It's not a perfect solution but at least it's
a working one.  I had to do some minor tweaking in the Rosegarden RGD
editor but I did manage to at least get the program patches working.

BTW, the Cakewalk/Sonar INS file is based on the MIDI standard and hasn't
really changed in the past 20 years or so,

Regards,
Gary



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-16 Thread david
On 05/15/2012 09:31 PM, Gary G. wrote:
 Andyandy-nntp23@...  writes:


 Gary G. wrote:

 It looks like 7 years ago the developers of Rosegarden had indeed been
 developing such a script.

 A fellow by the name of Pedro Lopez-Cabanillos was working on exactly this
 problem with a perl script called ins2rgd.pl  Somehow it seems the project
 simply vanished or lost interest.

 Actually I just checked and that script is still included in the current
 rosegarden source code tarball, you can find it under /scripts/.

 Here are some instructions on how to use it:

 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.rosegarden.user/5102

 If the rgd file format and the ins file format hasn't changed since 2005 ,
 then the script should still work fine.

 Let us know how you get on with it.

 The thing is, that most of us don't install Rosegarden from Tarballs.
 99% of us use whatever package manager comes with our distros.  I can
 state categorically that there is no such script included with the
 *buntu distros out there.

I use 11.11.42 installed from Debian Sid repository, and there's no such 
script on my system, either. Sounds like the package maintainer isn't 
including them, or maybe you need to have the -src package installed, too?

-- 
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http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-16 Thread Andy
david wrote:
 On 05/15/2012 09:31 PM, Gary G. wrote:
 The thing is, that most of us don't install Rosegarden from Tarballs.
 99% of us use whatever package manager comes with our distros.  I can
 state categorically that there is no such script included with the
 *buntu distros out there.
 
 I use 11.11.42 installed from Debian Sid repository, and there's no such 
 script on my system, either. Sounds like the package maintainer isn't 
 including them, or maybe you need to have the -src package installed, too?
 

You should do a bug report on the bug reporting system of your distro (Ubuntu
/ Debian) asking the distro packagers to include this script in the next
package update.

The script is quite hidden as all other scripts in the /scripts/ directory in
the source code appear to be build or development related (of no use to normal
users), so I imagine the packagers never noticed this script.

I will certainly include this script in the next update of my Redhat / Centos
/ SL Rosegarden package.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD

2012-05-16 Thread jimmy

 Gary G. wrote:

 Actually I just checked and that script is still included in
 the current
 rosegarden source code tarball, you can find it under
 /scripts/.
 
 Here are some instructions on how to use it:
 
 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.rosegarden.user/5102
 
 If the rgd file format and the ins file format hasn't
 changed since 2005 ,
 then the script should still work fine.
 

Here's getting it from the Rosegarden source-code repository:

   https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/trunk/rosegarden/

   
https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/trunk/rosegarden/scripts/

   
https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/trunk/rosegarden/scripts/ins2rgd.pl


I'm not a Perl guru, but can fumble around if need to.  If you have problem 
running the script to convert certain .INS file(s), I can probably help take a 
look at a couple of those if I can find the time, first come first serve -- no 
guarrantee what-so-ever.  But first, run the script if you can, capture the 
errors, and the resulting output file.

Post and attach tar/zip copy of those files to this mailing list, so other 
people can help out, or learn by fumble-around on their own if they want.  It's 
Rosegarden related, so it's not off-topic on this list.


Jimmy



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-15 Thread Andy
Gary G. wrote:

 It looks like 7 years ago the developers of Rosegarden had indeed been
 developing such a script.
 
 A fellow by the name of Pedro Lopez-Cabanillos was working on exactly this
 problem with a perl script called ins2rgd.pl  Somehow it seems the project
 simply vanished or lost interest.

Actually I just checked and that script is still included in the current
rosegarden source code tarball, you can find it under /scripts/.

Here are some instructions on how to use it:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.rosegarden.user/5102

If the rgd file format and the ins file format hasn't changed since 2005 ,
then the script should still work fine.

Let us know how you get on with it.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-14 Thread D. Michael McIntyre
On Sunday, May 13, 2012, Gary G. wrote:

 One thing I've already noticed is that... the txt2rgd.py script doesn't seem
 to call in any archivers... I'm sort of wondering if it even works as
 intended to begin with.

Yes, Rosegarden can read these files whether they're compressed or not.  
Compressed is standard, and the compression format used is gzip, not rar.
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-14 Thread Gary G .
D. Michael McIntyre michael.mcintyre@... writes:

 
 On Sunday, May 13, 2012, Gary G. wrote:
 
  One thing I've already noticed is that... the txt2rgd.py script doesn't seem
  to call in any archivers... I'm sort of wondering if it even works as
  intended to begin with.
 
 Yes, Rosegarden can read these files whether they're compressed or not.  
 Compressed is standard, and the compression format used is gzip, not rar.

Thanks for the filespec info Michael.  That's a big help.  And a Big Thanks
for all the effort you put in to keep all of us musically inclined geeks happy.

 :)

I'll send the modified script back to you guys as soon as I'm sure it does what
it's supposed to do.





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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-13 Thread Gary G .
Andy andy-nntp23@... writes:

  btw, here's the tech spec for the Cakewalk INS Format:
  
  http://www.raisedbar.net/InsDef.htm
 
 Sounds like a good idea, I would do it in Perl if I was doing it, since I have
 decent Perl knowledge and no Python knowledge and Perl is the perfect language
 for text file manipulation, but right now I neither have the time nor the need
 for a script like this (currently I don't even have the time to use Rosegarden
 much.  ).
 
 I think it would take more than an evening though, even to a seasoned script
 writer.
 
 Good luck!
 

The thing is, there's an existing python script called txt2rgd.py that I can
simply modify. Basically I won't even have to touch the I/O routines and simply
have to change or add a few lines to the parser.

With any luck I might have it working by next weekend.  Barring any major snags
in format.  One thing I've already noticed is that RGD files are rar compressed
and the txt2rgd.py script doesn't seem to call in any archivers, so I'm sort of
wondering if it even works as intended to begin with.

Anyway, lots of research ahead of me, so I'll post it up here once I have
something working :)

Regards,
Gary


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-12 Thread david
On 05/12/2012 11:04 AM, Gary G. wrote:
 Perhaps this would be better targeted to the developers' list but here's
 another thought on RGD files.

 Perhaps some genius script programmer out there could write a conversion
 utility that converts Cakewalk/Sonar INS files into RGDs?  Or perhaps
 even one of the Rosegarden Developers could write an import utility to
 accomplish the same thing directly within the Rosegarden application
 itself?

 While IANAL and have no idea if the INS format is proprietary or not,
 FOSS is full of reverse engineered document viewers and converters which
 seem to coexist beautifully with their non free counterparts.

 Such a utility would allow instant access to a library of thousands of
 MIDI instruments and save us all the mind numbing task of entering
 thousands of parameters by hand.  Honestly I'd think a simple perl or
 python script would be all that's necessary to make Rosegarden a
 thousand times more useful than it is even now.

You mean something like the script mentioned here?

http://rosegardenmusic.com/resources/documents/rgd-HOWTO.shtml

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-12 Thread Gary G .
david gnome@... writes:

 
 On 05/12/2012 11:56 AM, david wrote:
  On 05/12/2012 11:04 AM, Gary G. wrote:
  Perhaps this would be better targeted to the developers' list but here's
  another thought on RGD files.
 
  Perhaps some genius script programmer out there could write a conversion
  utility that converts Cakewalk/Sonar INS files into RGDs?  Or perhaps
  even one of the Rosegarden Developers could write an import utility to
  accomplish the same thing directly within the Rosegarden application
  itself?
 
  While IANAL and have no idea if the INS format is proprietary or not,
  FOSS is full of reverse engineered document viewers and converters which
  seem to coexist beautifully with their non free counterparts.
 
  Such a utility would allow instant access to a library of thousands of
  MIDI instruments and save us all the mind numbing task of entering
  thousands of parameters by hand.  Honestly I'd think a simple perl or
  python script would be all that's necessary to make Rosegarden a
  thousand times more useful than it is even now.
 
  You mean something like the script mentioned here?
 
  http://rosegardenmusic.com/resources/documents/rgd-HOWTO.shtml
 
 Oh, sorry, that's not the script, it's a how to that mentions a script 
 that converts properly-formatting plain text or CVS files into RGD.
 

I downloaded and ran txt2rgd.py shortly after I posted and tried it out
on a Cakewalk INS file that specifically targets my Korg TR.  It barfed
out over 2400 errors!!!

Now if I have to go in and reformat 2400 lines in order to create a viable
text file for the conversion that's really not going to save me a lot of
grunt work.  And that's only for ONE synth!

Now seriously, I'm a user, not a programmer nor a spreadsheet wizard.  I
haven't touched a line of code since college over 25 years ago.

Seeing as Cakewalk/Sonar INS files are ubiquitous, unchanged for over two
decades and as close as a standard as anyone can get to set out instrument
definitions, it strikes me as a long overdue and almost trivial
afterthought for any seasoned script programmer to write a 100 line or so
conversion utility.

Hell, the last code I wrote was in Turbo Pascal and even I could kludge 
together something that could do the job if I had all the parameters handy.

In fact, if nobody steps up to the plate on this and offers to write it, I
may just end up having to do it myself anyway.

Lord knows it's a hell of a lot easier than transcribing the Bible in
Calligraphy, which is what the conventional wisdom seems to dictate is the
only way to create a viable RGD file.

Just something to ponder...
Gary





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Re: [Rosegarden-user] One Further Thought on RGD Files

2012-05-12 Thread Andy
Gary G. wrote:

 So the more I look at this problem, the easier path seems to be simply
 downloading a tutorial on python, spend a week learning the language,
 and writing the utility myself.
 
 Figure with having to learn the API and system calls and researching
 the file formats (I know sweet-f***-all about XML documents) I should
 have something up and running within a week or two and fully debugged
 and free to release under GNU license within a month at the outside.
 
 At least it'll be useful to everyone else who struggles along sequencing
 $2000 synths with basic General MIDI patches.
 
 For a seasoned python or perl script writer this would be an evening's
 work at most, but like I said, I haven't coded in 25 years, so if no one
 else is willing to do it I guess I'll start printing up the necessary
 research material and kludge something together when I have the time.
 
 Even with all that, it will STILL be easier than reformatting the crap
 in a spreadsheet and make RGD creation in the future a pleasure rather
 than having one's wisdom teeth extracted anally like it is today. :D
 
 Wish me luck and if anyone with more skilz than I gotz wants to take
 this off my hands by all means feel free.  I won't be insulted. :D
 
 btw, here's the tech spec for the Cakewalk INS Format:
 
 http://www.raisedbar.net/InsDef.htm

Sounds like a good idea, I would do it in Perl if I was doing it, since I have
decent Perl knowledge and no Python knowledge and Perl is the perfect language
for text file manipulation, but right now I neither have the time nor the need
for a script like this (currently I don't even have the time to use Rosegarden
much. :-( ).

I think it would take more than an evening though, even to a seasoned script
writer.

Good luck!


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