Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-11 Thread Holger Marzen
On Thu, 10 May 2012, Chris Cannam wrote:

 On 10 May 2012 12:38, Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:
  On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making 
  this editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?
 
 I host it. It gets updated automatically from the Subversion repo.
 (https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/website)

So can I add a song and some text/images there or would it be better to
setup an own page and link there?

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread D. Michael McIntyre
On Wednesday, May 09, 2012, D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

 ...It's a prettier example of the same sort of breed as that car.

After a bit more reflection, it occurs to me the real problem is not the 
eclectic design, but that every neat little gizmo bolted onto this thing was 
manufactured by a different company.  We've got imperial and metric 
measurements, different voltage standards, three-phase motors that have to be 
fed with a rotary converter, etc.

All the parts were made to different standards, and most of the manufacturers 
are long since out of business, so if you call the number stamped on the part 
to ask someone a question, you're going to get a disconnected message, and 
then you're going to have to figure it out for yourself, or build a new part 
from scratch.  I usually get stuck doing the latter myself, because I'm just 
no good at getting into other people's heads.

I guess this problem affects all software development, but I wouldn't know 
that, because I'm not a professional by any means.  I guess Rosegarden is my 
rude awakening to all the jubilation and glee I missed out on by being a 
liberal arts major.

No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Richard Bown
 liberal arts major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu1VhsNOwPU

 No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.

It is.  And any professional software of this size and complexity would be 
equally gnarly.  It's just the way it is and we all learn to accept this 
eventually because for some of us it enables us to earn money.  I no longer 
complain how shit software is because I know it's keeping me employed.

On that score you could very easily get a job as a software developer if you do 
wished!

Right - I'm going to crawl through this weeks conversations on rg-devel and 
rg-user and see if I can put some names next to things to do.  Or at least get 
a feel for level of support for future directions.

On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making this 
editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?

R

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Chris Cannam
On 10 May 2012 12:38, Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:
 On one point - who hosts the RG website currently and any chance making this 
 editable with some non stone-age tools and for multiple users?

I host it. It gets updated automatically from the Subversion repo.
(https://rosegarden.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/rosegarden/website)

I don't disagree in principle that the site could usefully be shinier
and easier to edit -- it does date from 2004 after all.

But don't forget that overhauling websites (regardless of tools) is a
time sink almost comparable to developing software, especially since
everyone always has an opinion...


Chris

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Ian Gardner
I guess this problem affects all software development, but I wouldn't know 
that, because I'm not a professional by any means.  I guess Rosegarden is my 
rude awakening to all the jubilation and glee I missed out on by being a 
liberal arts major.

No great loss.  Software is a pain in the ass.
-- 
D. Michael McIntyre


I guess people like me are part of the problem in this regard, turn up one day, 
chuck something in to do with linked segments and then f. off into the sunset. 
Fly-by-night, here today and gone tomorrow contributors :-(

While dusting off my jack-midi code I noticed I was also halfway through 
implementing a scheme for copy/pasting linked segments more flexibly, but I got 
scared of committing it for fear of bringing the whole pack-o-cards down around 
my ears.

If it's any consolation (which I'm sure it isn't), I'm currently making my 
living from code development, and the codes I work on which pay my wages are 
much much MUCH worse than Rosegarden under the hood. Doing it for a living 
though you do at least get the pleasant face-to-face company of your fellow 
developers to share a laugh with at tea break time. That helps A LOT.


I guess one possible way to ameliorate the bejeesus, this codebase is an 
unmaintainable spaghetti! problem is automated testing. Given that RG is 
command driven it might be possible to put a command serialisation scheme in 
place to generate a sort of composition building script (basically a dump of 
the command stack). Sarcasm Merely requires a pure virtual serialise() 
function in the Command class, and the appropriate implementation in all 
150,000 commands currently in RG /Sarcasm. Then if you do some work and the 
tests still pass, you can't have done too much wrong, even if you don't 
understand every other part of the code, you just know you haven't broken it 
too badly. Which part of the whole RG workflow is being the most unstable atm? 
Composition creation/editing? Recording/playback?


Ian.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Chris Cannam
[cc -devel]

On 10 May 2012 13:41, Ian Gardner ilgard...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 I guess people like me are part of the problem in this regard, turn up one 
 day, chuck something in to do with linked segments and then f. off into the 
 sunset. Fly-by-night, here today and gone tomorrow contributors :-(

Well, you could say anyone who ever wrote any of the code is part of
the problem by now! I know I am.

 I guess one possible way to ameliorate the bejeesus, this codebase is an 
 unmaintainable spaghetti! problem is automated testing.

Well, as you know, the difficulty with automated unit testing is the
sheer effort involved in writing tests (after the fact) that cover
more than a tiny percentage of possible cases.

[On another project I'm currently in the middle of porting some
existing unit tests to a different test framework (without changing
their content) just to sit better with the rest of the code. I can't
believe how much work it is -- I never really noticed the initial
effort of writing the tests for that code because I did it at the same
time as writing the code under test, but when you look at it
afterwards there's a heck of a lot of it and I simply can't imagine
doing it all at once after the fact, even if it didn't actually take
any real thought.]

I do like the suggestion of using slightly higher-level test cases
with synthetic series of commands though (given serialisable command
classes). Apart from anything else, then you could supplement
human-designed tests with pseudo-random command sequences or fuzz
tests, which would give quite a good tradeoff of effort against
effectiveness.


Chris

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Richard Bown
Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
contribute to new website/direction/developments.

Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball rolling 
so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and you want 
it here.

 Songwriters  
 Will J Godfrey
 Holger Marzen
 Neil Bryan  User/Supporter

Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

 Current Core Dev
 Michael 
 Tom Breton   
 Daren Beattie
 Ian Gardner  

A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.

 Devs or Interested in Ports 
 Ian Gardner   Mac Port
 David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
 Richard Windows Port.

Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?

 Website
 Brett McCoy
 Michael 
 Chris?
 Richard  

Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.

Thoughts?

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Andy

Richard Bown wrote:
 Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.
 
 Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
 people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and 
 you want it here.
 
 Songwriters  
 Will J Godfrey
 Holger Marzen
 Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
 
 Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
 
 Current Core Dev
 Michael 
 Tom Breton   
 Daren Beattie
 Ian Gardner  
 
 A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.
 
 Devs or Interested in Ports 
 Ian Gardner   Mac Port
 David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
 Richard Windows Port.
 
 Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?
 
 Website
 Brett McCoy
 Michael 
 Chris?
 Richard  
 
 Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.
 
 Thoughts?

Yes, I have some thoughts! To briefly introduce myself so I don't look like an
intruder, I have been a on-off Rosegarden User for many years (and still am
when I find time for making music) and my tiny contributions so far for RG
have been two instrument definition files (Korg 05R/W and Yamaha RM50), a RG
1.7.3 Package for Mandriva 3 years ago and now a RG package for RHEL 6 and
clones. I'm not a programmer so can't help on that side (I'm a sysadmin
professionally).

To get back on subject, I think RG needs to be more visible in the Linux world
to attract new users and even more importantly make sure that packagers of all
major Linux distros are aware of new releases, so that the latest version
swiftly ends up in the repos of current distros.

Without this crucial task most users will never be able to use RG as very few
users are experienced enough to build from source themselves!

Like I mentioned in another post I have taken the liberty to post the 12.04
release announcement to Lxer.com and linuxtoday.com. IMHO this should be
standard practice at every new release as it keeps RG in the news (at least
occasionally) and it might alert packagers that there is a new version out.

But since it's far from certain that all or even most packagers read these
Linux newssites, it would maybe be useful to set up a rosegarden-announce
mailing list just for new release announcements and then contact packagers of
linux distros that have packaged up previous versions of RG encouraging them
to subscribe to that list so that they stay informed about new releases.

Regards,
Andy


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Brett McCoy
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Holger Marzen hol...@marzen.de wrote:
 On Thu, 10 May 2012, Richard Bown wrote:

 Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.

 Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
 people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here 
 and you want it here.

  Songwriters
  Will J Godfrey
  Holger Marzen
  Neil Bryan      User/Supporter

 Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

 Yep. Songs to be downloaded. And maybe hints and some technical notes
 how the songs were made. Maybe screenshots.

I can definitely contribute under this area also. Every piece of music
I have online (and it's quite a bit) was done with Rosegarden and
Ardour.

-- 
Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com

In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
it would overturn the world.
    -- Jelaleddin Rumi

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread David Tisdell
I can try and recruit some Mac developers but I am not a developer myself.
I know how to compile things but not write code.
I could also contribute something in the songwriting area.

Another thought is that Debian used to post a list of consultants (probably
still does) where people could go for learning or support. Perhaps
Rosegarden could add that to the web site. I could easily do trainings in
the New England/New York area. If we had a list of people who were  willing
and able to present on the software, we could expand the user base which
should attract some new developers.

Dave

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Brett McCoy idragos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Holger Marzen hol...@marzen.de wrote:
  On Thu, 10 May 2012, Richard Bown wrote:
 
 Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.

 Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some
 people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here
 and you want it here.

 Songwriters

 Will J Godfrey

 Holger Marzen

 Neil Bryan  User/Supporter


 Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

 Current Core Dev

 Michael

 Tom Breton

 Daren Beattie

 Ian Gardner


 A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.

 Devs or Interested in Ports

 Ian Gardner   Mac Port

 David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?

 Richard Windows Port.


 Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?
  Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.
 
  Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out
 some people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here
 and you want it here.
 
   Songwriters
   Will J Godfrey
   Holger Marzen
   Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
 
  Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?
 
  Yep. Songs to be downloaded. And maybe hints and some technical notes
  how the songs were made. Maybe screenshots.

 I can definitely contribute under this area also. Every piece of music
 I have online (and it's quite a bit) was done with Rosegarden and
 Ardour.

 --
 Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
 
 In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
 it would overturn the world.
 -- Jelaleddin Rumi


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Abrolag
On Wed, 9 May 2012 07:20:25 +0200 (CEST)
Holger Marzen hol...@marzen.de wrote:

 On Tue, 8 May 2012, Abrolag wrote:
 
  On the promotional side...
  For what it's worth, absolutely every track on my website - and there are 
  one or
  two there :) - was developed and performed using Rosegarden. This includes
  controlling both hardware and soft synths, hydrogen drum machine and 
  embedded
  audio.
 
 As a 50 years old man I started again making music after 25 years of
 being busy with other things. Its now a few weeks since I noticed
 Rosegarden, and I liked it from the first moment on. To get rid of big
 latencies and jitter I used fluidsynth as a plugin. This is the only
 synth I used in the song Die Nacht am Meer, even for the drums. My wife
 was so happy with the results that she placed the song on her blog:
 
 http://sally13.de/blog/?p=2935
 
 (http://sally13.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/die_nacht_am_meer.mp3)
 
 Of course she placed a Rosegarden-Link as well there.
 
 I am very, very happy that development goes on. Unfortunately I cannot
 install all the neccessary header files on my Ubuntu 11.10 to compile
 the most recent version of Rosegarden because of dependency conflicts. I
 guess on this Ubuntu there's still a little mess when you have 64 and 32
 bit software mixed
 
 However, Rosegarden is my favourite tool.
 
 Regards
 Holger

Enjoyed this. Very nice vocal harmonies.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread Abrolag
On Thu, 10 May 2012 17:18:11 +0200
Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:

 Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.
 
 Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
 people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here and 
 you want it here.
 
  Songwriters  
  Will J Godfrey
  Holger Marzen
  Neil Bryan  User/Supporter
 
 Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

Just checked, and there still is a link to my homepage from Rosegarden's
'Community' page :)

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-10 Thread david
On 05/10/2012 05:46 AM, Andy wrote:

 Richard Bown wrote:
 Ok so a quick trawl of emails turned up some names perhaps that could 
 contribute to new website/direction/developments.

 Just to say that this is just a quick scan and I may have missed out some 
 people who are big current contributors.  This is just to get the ball 
 rolling so apologies in advance if your name is here in error or not here 
 and you want it here.

 Songwriters
 Will J Godfrey
 Holger Marzen
 Neil Bryan  User/Supporter

 Perhaps the above could contribute links/music/videos etc?

 Current Core Dev
 Michael
 Tom Breton
 Daren Beattie
 Ian Gardner

 A plan for the future Dev direction if any.  Having no plan is also fine.

 Devs or Interested in Ports
 Ian Gardner   Mac Port
 David Tisdell   Mac Port potentially?
 Richard Windows Port.

 Maybe some ideas of timescales if these are real possibilities?

 Website
 Brett McCoy
 Michael
 Chris?
 Richard

 Some idea of what to do with it and how to go forward.

 Thoughts?

 Yes, I have some thoughts! To briefly introduce myself so I don't look like an
 intruder, I have been a on-off Rosegarden User for many years (and still am
 when I find time for making music) and my tiny contributions so far for RG
 have been two instrument definition files (Korg 05R/W and Yamaha RM50), a RG
 1.7.3 Package for Mandriva 3 years ago and now a RG package for RHEL 6 and
 clones. I'm not a programmer so can't help on that side (I'm a sysadmin
 professionally).

 To get back on subject, I think RG needs to be more visible in the Linux world
 to attract new users and even more importantly make sure that packagers of all
 major Linux distros are aware of new releases, so that the latest version
 swiftly ends up in the repos of current distros.

 Without this crucial task most users will never be able to use RG as very few
 users are experienced enough to build from source themselves!

 Like I mentioned in another post I have taken the liberty to post the 12.04
 release announcement to Lxer.com and linuxtoday.com. IMHO this should be
 standard practice at every new release as it keeps RG in the news (at least
 occasionally) and it might alert packagers that there is a new version out.

 But since it's far from certain that all or even most packagers read these
 Linux newssites, it would maybe be useful to set up a rosegarden-announce
 mailing list just for new release announcements and then contact packagers of
 linux distros that have packaged up previous versions of RG encouraging them
 to subscribe to that list so that they stay informed about new releases.

Announcements on linux-audio-announcements?

During an email chat with one of the KDE4 developers a few years ago, I 
mentioned that Rosegarden 10 was coming out. He said that was great 
news, that RG was one of our major audio applications. So not just 
musicians think so!

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread david
Actually, this David was only semi-joking about the matrix editor. I 
look at pieces of programs as resource costs. Resources spent on the 
matrix editor are not available for use on what I consider more 
important parts of the program. For what it's worth, I've have liked 
matrix editors for music. It's like trying to read a player piano score: 
useless to anything except machines. (Like writing a score in Lilypond 
using a text editor.)

But RG is very flexible and I enjoy that.

On 05/07/2012 02:36 PM, David Tisdell wrote:
 When I am writing, I almost always begin with the notation editor.
 Vitally important tool. One of the things I like about RG is that it
 adapts well whatever your approach to composition.

 Dave

 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:07 PM, PMA wrote:

 Abrolag wrote:
   On Mon, 07 May 2012 18:08:43 -0400
   PMApeterarmstr...@aya.yale.edu
 mailto:peterarmstr...@aya.yale.edu  wrote:
  
   david wrote:
   ...  I think RG could profitably get rid of the matrix editor. ;-)
  
   For the record just in case, that would end my interest in RG.
  
   methinks david was having his little joke ;-)
  
 i saw the  ;-)  but didn't get it.  sorry, naive me.

-- 
David
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Richard Bown
Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was I 
probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got bored 
of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt to use 
them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.

Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as and 
when.  And if.

Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be nice 
to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black 
/italics.  But yes, we've been here before..



On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree on the More bang for the buck on a Windows port but JACK already 
 runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise, 
 the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that is 
 true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It may be 
 easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I can't say for 
 sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block on Windows 
 because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.
 
 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy idragos...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
  Perhaps as a starting point we could shake the tree for developers on
  Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of origin.
  The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are worked
  out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do that
  but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working on
  the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get more
  involved.
 
 I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
 can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
 maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
 we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
 Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
 every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
 help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
 stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
 like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
 worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
 definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
 since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
 and have MIDI  Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
 provide.
 
 --
 Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
 
 In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
 it would overturn the world.
 -- Jelaleddin Rumi
 
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread David Tisdell
The attempt at a Mac port was done before the codebase had been moved to
qt. It was installed through fink. I exchanged email with the person who
had tried it and he had run into significant  problems because of KDE
dependencies and he gave up.
Nice to hear about the commercial version of Ardour that runs on Windows.
That gives lots of hope for doing the same with Rosegarden; especially
since Richard is focusing on the MIDI components first.

Dave

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Richard Bown 
richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:

 Yes, but for the windows port so far audio isn't in scope.  And if it was
 I probably wouldn't do it with JACK I have to say.  Purely because I've got
 bored of fancy APIs for stuff and different models you're forced to adopt
 to use them,  ALSA and JACK did it for me.

 Midi with Rtmidi and ? for audio.  Maybe portaudio.  Cross that bridge as
 and when.  And if.

 Agree that website and docs and tutorials require a refresh. IMHO would be
 nice to have a clean, modern, fresh approach to website and shift the black
 /italics.  But yes, we've been here before..



 On 8 May 2012, at 17:31, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree on the More bang for the buck on a Windows port but JACK already
 runs on OS X as do some JACK aware apps. Percentage  of the user base wise,
 the Mac has historically more people creating content (Don't know if that
 is true today) and it is fully POSIX compliant whereas Windows is not. It
 may be easier to get a full port over to the Mac. Not being a coder, I
 can't say for sure but the Ardour people ran into a significant road block
 on Windows because it wasn't fully POSIX compliant.

 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Brett McCoy idragos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Tisdell david.tisd...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Perhaps as a starting point we could shake the tree for developers on
  Linux audio user lists, wikis, etc. since Linux is the platform of
 origin.
  The core work should begin here and ports created as new features are
 worked
  out. As a member of the Rosegarden community, I would be happy to do
 that
  but I would like some guidance from people like Michael who are working
 on
  the project as to what should be said and who and how to contact to get
 more
  involved.

 I don't have the time to help with C++ development (and I definitely
 can't help with Windows porting), but I can certainly help with
 maintaining the website or Wiki pages and documentation. For instance,
 we need to better showcase some of the music being composed on
 Rosegarden (allow me to toot my horn here, but I recently completed a
 2 year study of Orchestration via Berklee and used Rosegarden for
 every single one of my projects). Maybe some video tutorials would
 help also (I'd definitely be up for making some of those). Pushing
 stuff out to Windows and OS X would help exposure also. Graphics apps
 like GIMP, MyPaint and Krita have gotten a lot of adoption from those
 worlds as alternatives to expensive commercial apps, and there is
 definitely room for something like Rosegarden there, too, especially
 since it offers notation, whereas apps like Reaper and Reason don't,
 and have MIDI  Audio capabilties way beyond what Finale or Sibelius
 provide.

 --
 Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com
 
 In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it,
 it would overturn the world.
 -- Jelaleddin Rumi


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread PMA
D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
 On Tuesday, May 08, 2012, PMA wrote:

 Waay too hard on yourself.
 You need a (free) weekend in Acapulco!

 There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go somewhere
 and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my family as
 a kid.  That was 1987.

Well, your constitution must be incredible.
After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
long since!

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Richard Bown

  There is real truth in that.  I've literally never taken a proper go
 somewhere
  and see something sort of vacation since the last one I took with my
 family as
  a kid.  That was 1987.

 Well, your constitution must be incredible.
 After that, I'd have been in a Happy Farm
 long since!


I got converted into taking holidays by my wife - I never saw the point
twenty years ago.  Now I don't want to stay home.  That's where your rg
development time went..

R
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Mario Moles
Hello everyone! 
That's a lot that does not speak in this ml-list! 
I also have something to say on the future of rosegarden. I really like 
rosegarden. But I'm a maniac lilypond, mainly by Frescobaldi, because 
exploitation of power by lilypond rosegarden is, forgive me, ridiculous and 
depressing:
1) the management of the position of breaks does not exist and creates file.pdf 
terrible.
2) is also not possible to setup the page layout.
My use of rosegarden boils down to this:
1) Rapid re-edit of file.midi frescobaldi created for a quick check of the 
sound changes.
I repeat: I really like rosegarden, but I also think that a better integration 
of lilypond would attract many potential users.
Best regards and w rosegarden!
-- 
oiram/bin/selom
Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni.
MIB 
Frescobaldi 
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

2012-05-08 Thread Chris Cannam
On 8 May 2012 08:23, Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote:
 I have failed.

 What absolute self indulgent rubbish.

Though a very nicely constructed extended metaphor.

I think you're sort-of right that the proper answer ought to be a nice
brisk one about how it's just going the way it has to go and if it
isn't working out for you, well, those are the breaks. And it's been
around this long, people are still enjoying it and developers are
doing new things -- what should we do next to build on this?

But you and I have had a lot of time off from this project, and I
guess both of us did that because we felt a bit like Michael -- as if
every little bug fix ended up being an exploratory dive down a
stinking rabbit hole and each small new idea was a major project to be
written up on a board in marker pen and deliberated over for three
months because it would inevitably break half a dozen other things.
This isn't a codebase that lends itself well to an enjoyable agile
process.

I'm with PMA that you're being far too hard on yourself, Michael -- in
a project like this you don't need to be in a position where you have
an answer for everything. You've been pretty vital to this program's
survival so far, but you know, it is only a computer program -- you
could walk away tomorrow and just see what happens to it. It'd
probably stick around one way or another, and if it didn't, that might
be enough to suggest it didn't matter much to enough people in the
first place. I'm not suggesting you should necessarily do that, but it
might be no bad thing to remember that you can.


Chris

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