Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/26/19 4:45 PM, Ted Felix wrote: On 11/26/19 5:46 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I think it *is* also worth mentioning that different CPU 'monitoring' tools provide different results: Absolutely. Which is why I mentioned "top" specifically. I prefer htop. I do have a laptop with Intel's so-called 'hyperthreading' and was reading that readings about CPU usage etc. can be quite weird in this case.. As a rule of thumb, a HT logical core is like having an additional 15% of a full physical core. Or for a 2 physical HT core, 4 logical core CPU you've got about 2.3 CPUs. I'm pretty sure "top" reports a total of 400% CPU with all four logical cores in use. Windows Task Manager reports a total of 100% for all four. So a maxed out core in Windows looks like 25% on a four logical core machine. So, yeah, it's a mess. I've spent a lot of time working with these numbers. You get used to them. Here on Debian Testing + KXStudio, Yoshimi v1.6.0 idles with anywhere from 0.7-2.6% CPU use according to htop. (Of course, when I first went to start it up, it crashed reporting that my yoshimi.config file wasn't XML. So I removed the existing file and started it, it worked fine and ran with the CPU % indicated above. After I exited it and restarted it, it again complained about its config file no longer being XML. Silly Yoshimi.) Zyn 3.0.4 started up with no problems and idles with about the same CPU percentages as Yoshimi did. Tested again using top and got the same results. I don't know what your system is doing that mine's not, but I'm not seeing heavy CPU use from either when idling. I also have Ubuntu 18.04.1 + KXStudio installed on this laptop, but didn't try testing anything there. -- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/26/19 5:46 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I think it *is* also worth mentioning that different CPU 'monitoring' tools provide different results: Absolutely. Which is why I mentioned "top" specifically. I do have a laptop with Intel's so-called 'hyperthreading' and was reading that readings about CPU usage etc. can be quite weird in this case.. As a rule of thumb, a HT logical core is like having an additional 15% of a full physical core. Or for a 2 physical HT core, 4 logical core CPU you've got about 2.3 CPUs. I'm pretty sure "top" reports a total of 400% CPU with all four logical cores in use. Windows Task Manager reports a total of 100% for all four. So a maxed out core in Windows looks like 25% on a four logical core machine. So, yeah, it's a mess. I've spent a lot of time working with these numbers. You get used to them. Ted. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On November 25, 2019 9:09:22 PM HST, "D. Michael McIntyre" wrote: >On 11/26/19 12:07 AM, Ted Felix wrote: > >> easier to see. This is how I was able to improve rg performance >> significantly. > >Just to jump in here randomly... Ted, you really impressed me with how > >much you did improve performance, with so little downside it's kind of >ridiculous. You, sir, are truly a shining example of your craft, and I > >nod to you out of deep respect. > >Also, I haven't gotten on it yet at all, but I am kind of casually >meandering toward tackling the 4k challenge, and I will probably diddle >the GUI before the end of 2020. That would be nice since I plan to be receiving a machine with such a display capability. --- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
I think it *is* also worth mentioning that different CPU 'monitoring' tools provide different results: e.g. here I checked qjackctl's dsp load, top (and variants, atop, htop), and included xfce task manager and the difference especially what top and xfce task manager reported for cpu usage is pretty dramatic. I do have a laptop with Intel's so-called 'hyperthreading' and was reading that readings about CPU usage etc. can be quite weird in this case.. Lorenzo On 26/11/19 11:20, Will Godfrey wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 00:07:50 -0500 Ted Felix wrote: On 11/22/19 6:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: Exactly what setup have you got there if you don't mind me asking? 1st gen Core i3-370M. I'm using "top" to measure CPU usage. I go with low spec hardware to make performance issues like this easier to see. This is how I was able to improve rg performance significantly. To me the important point is that while idling, fluidsynth uses a small fraction of the CPU that zyn and yosh use. That means there is definitely room for improvement. It's entirely possible that the issue is related to the fact that I'm using whatever version Ubuntu 18.04 shipped with. Maybe they built this with optimizations off? Maybe these are older versions? Ted. Hi Ted, That explains a lot. It would indeed be compiled with no options at all. This is a debian requirement to maximise the compatibility across a wide range of devices, and from their point of view makes perfect sense. If I install such a .deb here, I get around 20% and this is almost entirely the low priority stuff (using htop), so your old setup is actually doing rather well. It is also somewhat unfair to compare with a more-or-less straight sample player like fluidsynth which has practically no overhead. While there is always room for improvement, Yoshi/Zyn have to do a lot of work just to stand still, because absolutely everything is generated in real time. This is why we try to push as much as possible out of the RT thread. The more cores you have, the better this works. Paul Nasca's original design is quite unique. Lots of people have said that the 'problem' is all the FFT stuff and it should use a wavetable design... until they look at exactly what it can do and the amount of real time variation there is in actually sounding notes. Will. P.S. Sorry. That's turned into a bit of a sermon :*) ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 00:07:50 -0500 Ted Felix wrote: >On 11/22/19 6:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> Exactly what setup have you got there if you don't mind me asking? > > 1st gen Core i3-370M. I'm using "top" to measure CPU usage. > > I go with low spec hardware to make performance issues like this >easier to see. This is how I was able to improve rg performance >significantly. > > To me the important point is that while idling, fluidsynth uses a >small fraction of the CPU that zyn and yosh use. That means there is >definitely room for improvement. > > It's entirely possible that the issue is related to the fact that I'm >using whatever version Ubuntu 18.04 shipped with. Maybe they built this >with optimizations off? Maybe these are older versions? > >Ted. Hi Ted, That explains a lot. It would indeed be compiled with no options at all. This is a debian requirement to maximise the compatibility across a wide range of devices, and from their point of view makes perfect sense. If I install such a .deb here, I get around 20% and this is almost entirely the low priority stuff (using htop), so your old setup is actually doing rather well. It is also somewhat unfair to compare with a more-or-less straight sample player like fluidsynth which has practically no overhead. While there is always room for improvement, Yoshi/Zyn have to do a lot of work just to stand still, because absolutely everything is generated in real time. This is why we try to push as much as possible out of the RT thread. The more cores you have, the better this works. Paul Nasca's original design is quite unique. Lots of people have said that the 'problem' is all the FFT stuff and it should use a wavetable design... until they look at exactly what it can do and the amount of real time variation there is in actually sounding notes. Will. P.S. Sorry. That's turned into a bit of a sermon :*) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/26/19 12:07 AM, Ted Felix wrote: easier to see. This is how I was able to improve rg performance significantly. Just to jump in here randomly... Ted, you really impressed me with how much you did improve performance, with so little downside it's kind of ridiculous. You, sir, are truly a shining example of your craft, and I nod to you out of deep respect. Also, I haven't gotten on it yet at all, but I am kind of casually meandering toward tackling the 4k challenge, and I will probably diddle the GUI before the end of 2020. -- D. Michael McIntyre ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/22/19 6:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: Exactly what setup have you got there if you don't mind me asking? 1st gen Core i3-370M. I'm using "top" to measure CPU usage. I go with low spec hardware to make performance issues like this easier to see. This is how I was able to improve rg performance significantly. To me the important point is that while idling, fluidsynth uses a small fraction of the CPU that zyn and yosh use. That means there is definitely room for improvement. It's entirely possible that the issue is related to the fact that I'm using whatever version Ubuntu 18.04 shipped with. Maybe they built this with optimizations off? Maybe these are older versions? Ted. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:59:42 -0500 Ted Felix wrote: >On 11/20/19 10:56 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> There was one thing that grabbed my attention. That was when you say Zyn >> uses a >> lot of CPU when idling. >> >> I very much doubt that. > > I'm looking right at it. I see an idling fluidsynth using 1%, jackd >(which is never idling) using 2%, and an idling zynaddsubfx (3.0.3) >using 35% cpu. > > Yoshimi 1.5.6 uses 20% cpu when idling. > >Ted. Well I'm astonished! Exactly what setup have you got there if you don't mind me asking? I've just tried building with no compiler optimisation, and it's still idling at less than 0.5% However, that's DSP load I'm monitoring. If I include the GUI (in it's own low priority thread), that goes up to about 3% This is on a 3.1GHz dual core Intel. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
Just chiming in here, I never use zyn or yoshimi because of this. Both of them are total cpu hogs. Justin A.K.A Demonic Sweaters YouTube.com/demonicsweaters demonicsweaters.com anthillrecordings.bandcamp.com > On Nov 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Ted Felix wrote: > > On 11/20/19 10:56 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> There was one thing that grabbed my attention. That was when you say Zyn >> uses a >> lot of CPU when idling. >> I very much doubt that. > > I'm looking right at it. I see an idling fluidsynth using 1%, jackd (which > is never idling) using 2%, and an idling zynaddsubfx (3.0.3) using 35% cpu. > > Yoshimi 1.5.6 uses 20% cpu when idling. > > Ted. > > > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On November 22, 2019 10:59:42 AM HST, Ted Felix wrote: >On 11/20/19 10:56 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> There was one thing that grabbed my attention. That was when you say >> Zyn uses a lot of CPU when idling. >> >> I very much doubt that. > > I'm looking right at it. I see an idling fluidsynth using 1%, jackd > (which is never idling) using 2%, and an idling zynaddsubfx (3.0.3) > using 35% cpu. Hmm, that Zyn using its new GUI? > Yoshimi 1.5.6 uses 20% cpu when idling. Have never noticed Yoshi's CPU use. --- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/20/19 10:56 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: There was one thing that grabbed my attention. That was when you say Zyn uses a lot of CPU when idling. I very much doubt that. I'm looking right at it. I see an idling fluidsynth using 1%, jackd (which is never idling) using 2%, and an idling zynaddsubfx (3.0.3) using 35% cpu. Yoshimi 1.5.6 uses 20% cpu when idling. Ted. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:19:17 -0500 Ted Felix wrote: > Since you seem to be OK with building software, you will probably >find my MIDI Guide interesting. It covers almost everything and might >get you to a new and more specific place where the trouble may lie: > > http://tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html > >Ted. Had a look through this myself, and found it very good. However... There was one thing that grabbed my attention. That was when you say Zyn uses a lot of CPU when idling. I very much doubt that. I don't know what the current status is - I have no contact with the devs these days, and haven't run it for years, but it's certainly not true for Yoshimi. QjackCtl reports a DSP load between 0.3% and 0.5% on a middle-of-the-road machine. There is (as always) a catch though. This depends on how many parts are enabled, and the complexity of the installed patches. A fairly complex 16 part setup idles at between 6.5% and 7%. and when running (from Rosegarden) this rises to between 20% and 30%. Running 48k 128 frames/Period. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On November 19, 2019 8:19:17 AM HST, Ted Felix wrote: >On 11/18/19 6:15 PM, Tim Burgess via Rosegarden-user wrote: >> If I start rosegarden, I can see messages go by and the Qsynth1 light > >> flash, but no audio. When I exit rosegarden, I get a blare of sound (as >> if all notes sent are played at once). > > Sounds like the events aren't actually being consumed by fluidsynth >and are piling up. I see this behavior if I press keys on my keyboard >before launching rg. Then they all appear at once. > >> I'd appreciate any input/thoughts about how to resolve this. > > I don't know a lot about qsynth, but it sounds like it might be a >good idea to run fluidsynth without qsynth to see if that helps at all. Another option: Use the fluidsynth DSSI plugin in RG. Works for me and seems to handle instrument changes better than RG interacting with Qsynth. >This is covered in my Linux MIDI Guide. > > Since you seem to be OK with building software, you will probably >find my MIDI Guide interesting. It covers almost everything and might >get you to a new and more specific place where the trouble may lie: > > http://tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html > >Ted. Hey, that guide is great. Thanks for making it! --- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
On 11/18/19 6:15 PM, Tim Burgess via Rosegarden-user wrote: If I start rosegarden, I can see messages go by and the Qsynth1 light flash, but no audio. When I exit rosegarden, I get a blare of sound (as if all notes sent are played at once). Sounds like the events aren't actually being consumed by fluidsynth and are piling up. I see this behavior if I press keys on my keyboard before launching rg. Then they all appear at once. I'd appreciate any input/thoughts about how to resolve this. I don't know a lot about qsynth, but it sounds like it might be a good idea to run fluidsynth without qsynth to see if that helps at all. This is covered in my Linux MIDI Guide. Since you seem to be OK with building software, you will probably find my MIDI Guide interesting. It covers almost everything and might get you to a new and more specific place where the trouble may lie: http://tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html Ted. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
[Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden and qsynth
Hi. I'm a new user who has been looking at rosegarden and stepped thru https://askubuntu.com/questions/620375/how-do-i-configure-sound-in-rosegarden to get qsynth up and then rosegarden feeding into it. This gave me a few hours of experimentation. I'm running Ubunto 19.10 and so I just pulled the packaged rosegarden and fluidsynth/qsynth packages via apt. This has given me rosegarden 19.06. I came back today to find that I can't get any sound at all. I could start qsynth and drop a midi file onto it and it would play the midi (i.e. I can hear it). I start rosegarden and I see the Qsynth device in Studio -> Manage Midi devices. When I load a prior .rg file or just import a .mid, I see the Qsynth1 light flash but no audio. When I start rosegarden, the console reports: [AlsaDriver] generatePortList(): ALSA Client information: [AlsaDriver] 14 , 0 - ( Midi Through , Midi Through Port-0 ) [AlsaDriver] (DUPLEX) [AlsaDriver] [ctype 2 , ptype 655362 , cap 99 ] [AlsaDriver] 128 , 0 - ( FLUID Synth (11559) , Synth input port (11559:0) ) [AlsaDriver] (WRITE ONLY) [AlsaDriver] [ctype 1 , ptype 1310726 , cap 66 ] A system reboot saw no change. I saw on https://qsynth.sourceforge.io/ that there was a 0.6.0 Qsynth tar so I removed the packaged Qsynth, installed all the build dependencies and then built Qsynth 0.6.0 from source. I can run Qsynth without issue but same behaviour. I can drop a .mid on the Qsynth UI and hear it played. If I start rosegarden, I can see messages go by and the Qsynth1 light flash, but no audio. When I exit rosegarden, I get a blare of sound (as if all notes sent are played at once). I'd appreciate any input/thoughts about how to resolve this. Thankyou, Tim ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
