Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

> > > When I say high-quality zoomable, I mean publication quality (see the kind > of plots that appear in Science, American Scientist, Nature or any American > Chemical Society or American Institute of Physics journals) and > interactively zoomable by click and drag. To be useable for most

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 2015-10-02 04:01, Jonathan wrote: interactively zoomable by click and drag. To be useable for most people they also need GUI adjustment of colors, symbols, etc. I saw some demo of a IPython/Jupyter widget which does exactly this: the plot is essentially a Javascript applet which allows

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I think that if you look back at the early rave reviews of Mathematica in such notable scientific journals as the New York Times, you will see that the reporters were impressed by color graphics of 3-d plots and endorsement of such scientific notables as Steve Jobs, Also the eccentric aspects of

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 3 October 2015 at 16:38, rjf wrote: > > > > Most software developers seeking funding need a "killer app". I don't > know that Mathematica has one -- but maybe it is STEM education, > since that's the major way of selling lots of systems. There were > forays into financial

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 10/3/15 05:27, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: On 2015-10-02 04:01, Jonathan wrote: interactively zoomable by click and drag. To be useable for most people they also need GUI adjustment of colors, symbols, etc. I saw some demo of a IPython/Jupyter widget which does exactly this: the plot is

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 2015-10-01 04:13, Jonathan wrote: high quality zoomable 2-D graphics It's interesting that you think that Sage cannot do this. Because I think that Matplotlib's plots (which is what Sage uses) are "high quality zoomable 2-D graphics". So I wonder what you're missing. -- You received this

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 30 Sep 2015 21:51, "Bill Hart" wrote: > > I don't see why would you make people use Sage for that, just so you can get the Sage usage figures up, instead of writing that as a simple Python package. > But if Sage could do a lot of the things related to this, which

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I suspect you are right, that for large classes of user, Sage will never catch these multimillion dollar companies. They aren't static targets and they sure as hell aren't going to allow Sage to muscle its way in. Perhaps William is right in trying to focus on making Sage a viable alternative

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 30 Sep 2015 21:51, "Bill Hart" wrote: > > I don't see why would you make people use Sage for that, just so you can get the Sage usage figures up, instead of writing that as a simple Python package. > But if Sage could do a lot of the things related to this, which

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Thursday, 1 October 2015 01:41:03 UTC-7, Volker Braun wrote: > > On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 8:13:05 AM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> call these jobs WIMI (that's the right German abbreviation for a research >> fellow, IIRC), and not engineer. >> > > "Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter"

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:40:30 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > > > On Thursday, 1 October 2015 01:41:03 UTC-7, Volker Braun wrote: >> >> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 8:13:05 AM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >>> >>> call these jobs WIMI (that's the right German abbreviation for a >>>

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I'd like to wholeheartedly agree with Jonathan. First, free software: I work in chemistry for a large multinational company, and Sage has been really useful for me. I've used both Mathematica and Matlab there, but have dropped them - it is really hard to persuade managers to cough up the

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 12:12:51 UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:46:29 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:34:06 AM UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: >>> >>> I don't disagree. But none of that is realistic. >>> >>> I

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 2:32:29 AM UTC-5, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > > On 2015-10-01 04:13, Jonathan wrote: > > high quality zoomable 2-D graphics > It's interesting that you think that Sage cannot do this. Because I > think that Matplotlib's plots (which is what Sage uses) are "high >

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 8:13:05 AM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > call these jobs WIMI (that's the right German abbreviation for a research > fellow, IIRC), and not engineer. > "Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter" Still, one year is not enough to do the work, publish, and use that for the

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I don't disagree. But none of that is realistic. I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. But then you get to be pushed around every day, have 9-5 working hours and deadlines. I've turned down offers to interview for such positions because I prefer the flexibility of

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:34:06 AM UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: > > I don't disagree. But none of that is realistic. > > I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. But then you > get to be pushed around every day, have 9-5 working hours and deadlines. > I've turned

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

That's an interesting read William, and I think a pretty good aim and justification. I realise that users of sagemath.org is a proxy for the number of users of Sage. It's no doubt better than the number of downloads, since many users might stick with an old version of Sage, be getting it from

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 2015-09-30 20:46, Dima Pasechnik wrote: after all it's probably publishable work Unfortunately, I very much doubt that this is true. Developing algorithms on paper is publishable, actually implementing them usually isn't. And that's only if you're working on some algorithmic aspect. Just

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I definitely think Sage is all about supporting Open Source software development, rather than a single monolithic project called Sage. That's definitely understandable, since everyone who comes to an Open Source project comes with their own vision of what they'd like to achieve with the

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:46:29 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:34:06 AM UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: >> >> I don't disagree. But none of that is realistic. >> >> I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. But then you >> get to

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 4:55:29 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: > > We have the money. We know what needs to be done. But we have zero > applicants. There is a lack of talent, not a lack of money in some areas. > You are looking for an expert in compilers / optimization who happens to

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I think that is a good question. I don't personally know the answers, since my experience is quite limited to the areas that interest me. However, it is my understanding that a significant number of people moved to Sage to start the sage-combinat project from MuPad. I don't know enough about

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > > On 2015-09-30 20:46, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > after all it's probably publishable work > Unfortunately, I very much doubt that this is true. Developing > algorithms on paper is publishable, actually implementing

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 8:34:06 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: > > I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. > http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm And I don't think that the average software engineer can write a superoptimizer that beats gmp/mpir

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:19:08 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 8:34:06 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: >> >> I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. >> > > http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm > 64,000 Euros,

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

To Bill: Reading your post, it seems that what you consider to be Sage's strength is not Sage's own code but rather the fact that we make many different softwares coexist in here. Seems to give even more reasons to provide easy ways for everybody to plug things in here. Perhaps we should rely

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 30 September 2015 at 18:05, Jori Mäntysalo wrote: > > It is usually good to build on strong points. So, what are best areas in > Sage? Where it now is The Software(tm) to use? > > And how could we expand those to some near area? > I'm not convinced that is true - in

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 30 September 2015 at 20:44, Bill Hart wrote: > > It's extremely unlikely we'll get someone wanting to move to the EU from > overseas for a position only guaranteed for one year. We are at least being > realistic about it. > > Bill. > Certainly many engineers

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

Here is Europe, the student pricing to buy a copy of Maple outright is even cheaper than Mathematica. And they also offer options for institutions to offer Maple free to their students. Moreover, Maple offer a way for students to use Maple worksheets provided by their professors for free.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I don't see why would you make people use Sage for that, just so you can get the Sage usage figures up, instead of writing that as a simple Python package. Just taking other software and making it part of Sage so that "Sage can do that too" isn't an argument for the adoption of Sage. I think

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:47:18 UTC+2, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: > > On 30 September 2015 at 20:44, Bill Hart > wrote: > > >> >> It's extremely unlikely we'll get someone wanting to move to the EU from >> overseas for a position only

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:36:16 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 9:28:14 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: >> >> http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm >>> >> 64,000 Euros, 103,000 Euros, 88,000 Euros. Those are the salaries Google >> is

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 9:28:14 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: > > http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm >> > 64,000 Euros, 103,000 Euros, 88,000 Euros. Those are the salaries Google > is offering. > You followed the redirect to the German page. As I said, salaries

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 2015-09-30 21:11, Dima Pasechnik wrote: On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: On 2015-09-30 20:46, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > after all it's probably publishable work Unfortunately, I very much doubt that this is true. Developing

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On 09/30/2015 02:25 PM, William Stein wrote: > However, from 2011 to now, year-on-year growth is > slightly less than 0%. It was maybe -10% from 2013 to 2014. There are probably a lot of people like me who haven't been back to sagemath.org since the switch to git. I just `git pull` every once in

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

Sometimes I don't even tell people to go there, but instead just tell them the necessary git commands. Best, Travis On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 5:12:29 PM UTC-5, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > On 09/30/2015 02:25 PM, William Stein wrote: > > However, from 2011 to now, year-on-year

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 09/30/2015 02:25 PM, William Stein wrote: >> However, from 2011 to now, year-on-year growth is >> slightly less than 0%. It was maybe -10% from 2013 to 2014. > > There are probably a lot of people like me who

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

As a physical scientist (chemist) who does research and teaches at the undergraduate level I agree with William that STEM is probably a place where Sagemath could be very useful. However, I'm not sure the reasons are what most people think. Before I try to explain myself, let me explain how

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: It is usually good to build on strong points. So, what are best areas in Sage? Where it now is The Software(tm) to use? And how could we expand those to some near area? I'm not convinced that is true - in fact, I would go

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 13:06:45 UTC-7, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > > On 2015-09-30 21:11, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:51:35 AM UTC-7, Jeroen Demeyer > wrote: > > > > On 2015-09-30 20:46, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > > after all it's probably

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

Money is actually not always the problem. Here in Europe we currently have multiple positions advertised, including one for developing MPIR. And most of these positions are software engineer positions that will ultimately improve some technology used by Sage (or which could be used by Sage).

[sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

I mean, people understand, right, that in order to make headway in a given area one needs to become the platform of choice for people in that area. Just being a viable alternative isn't really enough. It's necessary to actually disrupt (that's the relevant buzzword) to a sufficient extent the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sources of funding - perhaps computer manufacturers?

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, Bill Hart wrote: When it becomes clear that Sage is the platform of choice for that area then the number of users goes up in that area and more developers move to that platform to support their users. It is usually good to build on strong points. So, what are best areas