[sage-devel] Re: Pattern matching in Sage

[rjf]

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 12:07:45 AM UTC-8, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
> I would not be  too surprised if someone had written a Lisp interpreter 
>  in Python, representing Lisp code as stings :-)


There is a certain universality in strings, given that humans
read and write strings of characters.  And even speech
consists of strings of phonemes.

  There is a long history
of string-oriented programming languages going back
to SNOBOL.  I assume that at least one person wrote a simple
lisp system in SNOBOL.  If I recall correctly, there was some kind
of parenthesis-balancing feature in SNOBOL IV.

There is also a long history of people writing
programs based on a bad idea, poorly designed,
and destined to be discarded.  I've done some of
that myself.

RJF


 

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[sage-devel] Re: "SageMath will replace Maple"

[rjf]

I assume that they decided there was not enough use of Maple to
justify the expense of the license in CSC.  The sentence indicating
 that Sage will "replace" Maple is probably a simplification of 
something like ... 
"Those (few?) current users of Maple on our computer system may
find that Sage [SageMath], a software package we don't know too much
about, might satisfy their needs."

I think that someone with a considerable investment
in personally-coded programs in the Maple language would not
find that Sage is nearly a drop-in replacement for Maple.  Also
be cheaper and more effective to license Maple for a workstation
for those who really need it.  It is not entirely clear from the
Taito website, but it seems that a workstation version of Mathematica
is available. Also they seem to have a Magma license. 
Beyond that, I don't know if they have any stance about free/open source or 
not.

In a larger perspective, I think that dropping Maple is not a positive sign.
  Here is an apparently
major scientific computing establishment that has decreased its
investment in symbolic mathematical computing, presumably for
lack of interest.

I think it is not so much that they are "switching"  but disinvesting.

What would be a positive sign is if CSC showed a particular
commitment to computer algebra systems or Sage by
(a)  directing research funding toward such software development
  and/or
(b) Offering specialized in-house consultation for CSC users
interested in Maple or its alternatives.
  and/or
(c) supporting subscriptions to off-site services (SageMathCloud
which now appears to be CoCalc ?)  for its user community.
https://cocalc.com/policies/pricing.html

I have not conducted a survey on the topic, but my limited
observation  is that Mathematica, not Maple, has a larger
foothold in "scientific computing" establishments. Whether
this is an actual endorsement of the quality of the software
or a tribute to the dominance of physicists in national
laboratories or academia, or both, I cannot say.

RJF



On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 12:35:24 PM UTC-8, saad khalid wrote:
>
> This is awesome. Any information on why they're switching?
>
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 1:00:07 PM UTC-6, wstein wrote:
>>
>> One tiny step toward our mission statement... 
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -- 
>> From: Jori Mäntysalo 
>> Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:29 AM 
>> Subject: Sage and supercomputer 
>>
>>
>> Might be of interest to know. Taito is the second biggest computer in 
>> Finland, 17704 computing cores in total. 
>>
>> -- 
>> Jori Mäntysalo 
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -- 
>> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:13:51 +0200 (EET) 
>> Subject: [taito-users] SageMath will replace Maple on Taito at December 
>> 1, 2017 
>>
>> Dear Taito user, 
>>
>> There will be changes in the available mathematics software on Taito. 
>> The usage of Maple will end at November 30, 2017 and it 
>> will be removed from the CSC's scientific software collection. The open 
>> source 
>> software SageMath (http://www.sagemath.org/index.html, 
>> https://research.csc.fi/-/sagemath) will replace Maple. 
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> William Stein 
>> Professor of Mathematics 
>> University of Washington 
>> http://wstein.org 
>>
>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Python3 and super()

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 2017-11-16 15:02, Eric Gourgoulhon wrote:

I understand that the Python2-syntax of super, i.e. super(class,
self), is still valid in Python3 [1] so this should not hamper the
transition to Python3, but in writing new code (as I am doing at the
moment) shouldn't we use the Python3 way, i.e. super() ?


I didn't know that from "builtins import super" could do that. 
Personally, I would rather just keep using the Python 2 explicit 
super(...). There is nothing wrong with that.



Btw such an import is not performed in the file
src/sage/structure/parent.pyx cited above, so I am wondering how the
super() in that file works...


That's a *Cython* file which supports super() out of the box.

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[sage-devel] Re: Python3 and super()

[Eric Gourgoulhon]

Le jeudi 16 novembre 2017 15:02:36 UTC+1, Eric Gourgoulhon a écrit :
>
> so this should hamper the transition to Python3
>

Yet another typo: "this should hamper" --> "this should not hamper"
Sorry.

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Re: [sage-devel] ask.sagemath

[Erik Bray]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 1:36:17 PM UTC, Erik Bray wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Erik Bray  wrote:
>> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 4:21 PM, kcrisman  wrote:
>> >> I'll admit that there seem to be some load bugs.  Even in some very
>> >> cursory
>> >> looking at and doing edits on recent questions I get callback popups.
>> >>
>> >> But yes, in principle once Erik is approved for an answer it shouldn't
>> >> be a
>> >> problem.  Perhaps one of his posts was not approved, hence disappeared
>> >> from
>> >> the review queue, and now this problem occurs.  If you were ever
>> >> blocked as
>> >> a spammer that might (?) happen, though I don't see why that would have
>> >> happened.
>> >
>> > I'm not blocked, that's for sure.  I can make comments just fine.  I
>> > don't think I was every blocked before.
>> >
>> > Huh--I just tried posting an answer to a random question and it went
>> > through.
>> >
>> > So I went back to
>> >
>> > https://ask.sagemath.org/question/37644/little-doc-to-install-sage-math-on-w10/
>> > and edited the text of my previously saved answer, and then tried
>> > posting it and it went through.
>> >
>> > So it does sound like a bug in askbot.  Perhaps my answer was held in
>> > moderation at some point, but it refuses to post it if the text was
>> > exactly the same as before.  I haven't looked at the code for
>> > processing posted answers but there's probably something like that
>> > going on...
>>
>> No that wasn't it at all actually.  I just encountered the bug again
>> and it turns out the problem is with posting answers containing links.
>> I apparently need 10 karma to be able to do that, and without it it
>> just refuses to display the answer (however, there is no message as to
>> why).
>
>
> your karma should be at least 21 now :-)

Heh, thanks!

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Re: [sage-devel] Patchbot and its trust issues

[Erik Bray]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:00 AM, David Loeffler
 wrote:
> I'd like to request opinions on whether we should get rid of the "Trusted
> Authors" check in the Sage patchbot.
>
> At present, the patchbot won't test a ticket unless all of the names in the
> Trac "Authors" field have had at least one ticket previously merged.
> Presumably the intention of this is to prevent people uploading git branches
> with malicious code that will hijack the patchbot servers. But the "Authors"
> field is a free text field; there's nothing to stop anybody with a trac
> account uploading a git branch with author set to "William Stein", or
> "Mickey Mouse" for that matter. So this feature provides zero actual
> security against attacks, and only serves to make life more difficult for
> legitimate users -- and, worse still, it specifically targets new
> contributors who we want at all costs to encourage.
>
> So I would advocate getting rid of the "Trust" feature -- or at least
> adjusting it so it runs the ticket if any of the authors are trusted (rather
> than all of them). What do others here think of this idea?
>
> (I spotted this while reviewing ticket 19169, where the authors are a group
> of first-time Sage contributors from Sage Days 69 in 2015. The ticket has
> been languishing in needs-review purgatory for most of the intervening 2
> years, and the fact that it didn't have a green light from the patchbot
> probably contributed to that.)

+1 please consider opening an issue at https://github.com/sagemath/sage-patchbot

I believe it's already possible to configure a patchbot to allow
"untrusted" authors, but it's not the default.  You're right that the
"feature" makes no sense.

The only way to run a patchbot anything remotely "securely" is to be
running it on an isolated VM.  A lot of the other defaults for the
patchbot (such as not testing package updates) are similarly false
security, as we discussed here a few days ago.

Erik

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[sage-devel] Sage make error

[Dima Pasechnik]

Could you post install.log ?

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