[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-22 Thread Mark Rahner
On Feb 22, 2:37 am, JamesHDavenport j.h.davenp...@bath.ac.uk wrote: Canonical form and simplify aren't the same thing (necessarily). See Carette,J., Understanding Expression Simplification.  Proc. ISSAC 2004 (ed. J. Gutierrez), ACM Press, New York, 2004, pp. 72-79. I don't have access to that

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-22 Thread JamesHDavenport
Try http://www.cas.mcmaster.ca/~carette/publications/simplification.pdf The real point is that GiNaC's canonical form has different goals from a 'simplify' command in the sense of minimal complexity. One really needs to separate the two, and I don;t know how easy that is with the current design.

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-21 Thread Mark Rahner
So once it comes back to Sage, its internal representation goes back to the Ginac one. Doh! So much for a possible workaround involving maxima. Dox, I was using full_simplify() and also the handful of simplify methods it invokes.  Evaluate a.full_simplify? to see their names. Nils, trivial

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-21 Thread JamesHDavenport
On Feb 21, 9:36 pm, Mark Rahner rah...@alum.mit.edu wrote: So once it comes back to Sage, its internal representation goes back to the Ginac one. My initial problem was the severe obfuscation that resulted when extra factors added by the canonical form refused to cancel and then replicated

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-20 Thread kcrisman
On Feb 18, 8:24 pm, Mark Rahner rah...@alum.mit.edu wrote: I appreciate that background info.  I hadn't tried invoking maxima because I read somewhere that simplify() used maxima.  I must've been reading outdated material.  As you stated, maxima does the correct thing.  Because Sage can

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-20 Thread Nils Bruin
On Feb 18, 5:24 pm, Mark Rahner rah...@alum.mit.edu wrote: converts 1/sqrt(5) to 1/5*sqrt(5) so I suspect that this issue can be traced to the GiNaC canonical form. Yes, it does so for a very good reason: By simplifying expressions this way, you're sure to recognize equal expressions. Compare

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-18 Thread Mark Rahner
I appreciate that background info.  I hadn't tried invoking maxima because I read somewhere that simplify() used maxima.  I must've been reading outdated material.  As you stated, maxima does the correct thing.  Because Sage can invoke maxima, perhaps I have a work around. You're right that this

[sage-support] Re: Simplification Issue Implicates Canonical Form

2012-02-17 Thread kcrisman
In some previous incarnation, where Sage used Maxima for things like this, your simplification happened. (%i1) 1/sqrt(5); 1 (%o1) --- sqrt(5) (%i2) sqrt(5)/5;