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Today's Topics:
1. Re: info for newbies (Payal Rathod)
2. Re: sitarAvana samvada jharii (Ambujam Raman)
3. Re: sitarAvana samvada jharii (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
4. Re: indrashatru*r* va*r*dhasva (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
5. Sorry, indrashatru is not neuter (Jay Vaidya)
6. Erratum to erratum: indrashatru is not neuter (Jay Vaidya)
7. more on indrashatrur vardhasva (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
8. Re: Erratum to erratum: indrashatru is not neuter (Ambujam Raman)
9. udyogaparvam - sarga 16 - 4 (Sai Susarla)
10. Re: more on indrashatrur vardhasva (Ambujam Raman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:13:10 -0400
From: Payal Rathod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] info for newbies
To: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 11:55:55AM -0600, Sai wrote:
> > from where can I learn Sanskrit on my own? I have
> > no teachers near me.
> The web is your greatest teacher. Use it.
> To learn sanskrit on your own, the following link is an excellent
> starting point:
Forgive for the impediment. But has anyone seen a case of learning
from web or by herself? (This would boost my confidence).
-Payal
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:45:09 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sitarAvana samvada jharii
To: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "sanskrit digest"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
bho PKR mahodayaH:
idaniiM sharat khalu shishiraapi aagatavaaN |
kathaM adhunaa sp^RihaNiiya jharii kShataM bhavati |
rAmaH
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:07:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sitarAvana samvada jharii
To: ambujam raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sarve MahodyaaH,
mama gaNita yantrah adhunaapi kenaapi rogaaNunaa bAdhitah vartate /
dvitrANyahAni sodhum arhanti bhavantah.
Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
bho PKR mahodayaH:
idaniiM sharat khalu shishiraapi aagatavaaN |
kathaM adhunaa sp^RihaNiiya jharii kShataM bhavati |
rAmaH
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:16:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] indrashatru*r* va*r*dhasva
To: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From a talk by Paramacharya of Kanchi Mutt.--
You must not go wrong either in the enunciation or intonation of a mantra. If you do,
not only will you not gain the expected benefits from it, the result might well be
contrary to what is intended. So the mantras must be chanted with the utmost care.
There is a story told in the Taittiriya Samhita(2. 4. 12) to underline this.
Tvasta wanted to take revenge on Indra for some reason and conducted a sacrifice to
beget a son who would slay Indra. When he chanted his mantra, "Indrasatrur varddhasva.
. ", he went wrong in the intonation. He should have voiced "Indra" without raising or
lowering the syllables in it and he should have raised the syllables "tru" and
"rddha"(that is the two syllables are "udata"). Had he done so the mantra would have
meant, "May Tvasta's son grow to be the slayer of Indra". He raised the "dra" in
Indra, intoned "satru" as a falling svara and lowered the "rddha" in "varddhasva". So
the mantra meant now: "May Indra grow to be the killer of this son (of mine)". The
words of the mantra were not changed but, because of the erratic intonation, the
result produced was the opposite of what was desired. The father himself thus became
the cause of his son's death at the hands of Indra.
The gist of this story is contained in this verse which cautions us against erroneous
intonation.
Mantrohinah svarato varnato va
Mithya prayukto na tamarthamaha
Sa vagvajro yajamanam hinasti
Yathendrasatruh svarato' paradhat
What was the weapon with which Tvasta 's son was killed? Not Indra's thunderbolt but
the father's wrongly chanted mantra.
sent by PKR
Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Aarathi-gazh has transcribed the relevant portion
from
MahabhAShya. I have provided a rough-and-ready
translation below the quote
> MahabhAShya pradIpa for pashpashAhnika says it is
> "indrashatrurvardhasva". The tippaNI says its in
> shatapatha 1/5/2.
> The following is the relevant portion from pradIpa:
> "tatra indrasya shamayitA shAtayitA vA bhava - iti
> kriyAshabdo atra shatrushabda AshritaH,
> tadAshrayaNe hi bahuvrIhitatpuruShayoH
> arthabhedaH. tatra indra-amitratve siddhe sati
> 'indrasya shatrurbhava' ityatrArthe
> pratipAdye antodAtte prayoktavye, AdyudAttaH
> R^itvijA prayuktaH iti - arthAntarAbhidhAnAt
> indra eva vR^itrasya shAtayitA saMpannaH."
... indra-shatrur vardhasva (Note indra-shatru in
prathamA and vardhasva as in "grow")
The pradIpa says:
In this matter, 'become the quencher or slayer of
indra', that is the verb basis of this 'shatru'-word,
and it is for that reason that the bahuvrIhi and
tatpurushha compounds have different meanings. Given
that the enmity to indra is beyond doubt, while
wanting to signify that '(grow to) become the slayer
of indra', where an udAtta final accent should have
been used; the priest used an initial udAtta accent.
So - because it carried the other meaning, it was
indra that came to be the slayer of vR^itra.
So:
vardhasva is correct; NOT vadhasva
there is a silent (tvam) in indrashatrur vardhasva
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sorry, indrashatru is not neuter
To: Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I apologize for poor wording:
indrashatru is not neuter, but masculine. Having
doubts about this, I just wanted someone to check
whether "shatru" could be neuter by analogy to "mitra"
(meaning friend).
If it were neuter (which it is not), its prathamA and
dvitIyA forms would be "indrashatru" (without visarga;
wrong because "shatru" is not known to be used as
neuter.)
Also Aarathi-gazh checked the original printed text,
and found that indrashatru was used as masculine
("indrashatruH").
So, to be clear, NOT neuter in original. And the
bahuvrIhi would also not be neuter, if "shatru" cannot
be neuter.
dhana.njayaH
--- Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jay:
> Just some clarification leaving apart the issue of
> the accent.
> You mentioned that 'indrashatru' (without visarga)
> is napumsaka.
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Erratum to erratum: indrashatru is not neuter
To: Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The statement I wanted to make was:
____(corrected)_______
The bahuvrIhi would also not be neuter, if the true,
"other" referrent (in this case, vR^itra) is not
neuter. vR^itra happens to be masculine, so bahuvrIhi
compounds referring to him will also be masculine.
_______________________
--- Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
(in !ERROR!)
> the bahuvrIhi would also not be neuter, if
> "shatru" cannot be neuter.
> --- Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> had
> written:
> > Just some clarification leaving apart the issue of
> > the accent.
> > You mentioned that 'indrashatru' (without visarga)
> > is napumsaka.
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] more on indrashatrur vardhasva
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
IndrashatruH is prathama purusha ekavachanam.
vardhasva is madhyama purusha ekavachanam.
How do these match?
PKR
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:22:20 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: Erratum to erratum: indrashatru is not neuter
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The following is the dictionary entry for 'indrashatru' in MW dictionary.
quote begins;
Indra=shatru , mfn, one whose enemy or conqueror is Indra, conquered by
Indra, RV.i,32,6; SBr.;(as), m. 'Indra's enemy,' N. of Prahlaada, Ragh.
vii,32; BhP.vi,9,11 (with both the meanings).
(MW Sanskrit English Dictionary p 167)
quote ends
Apparently MW permits the word to be used in masculine,feminine and neuter
(mfn). In the masculine as a Noun it means Prahlaada and of course Vrittra
in the vedic context.
Accordingly I believe there is no restriction on using the word as a device
or object that could destroy 'Indra'. For example we can use it as
'indrashatru astra' (note astra is neuter) as a missile capable of
destroying Indra. Perhaps the vigraha should be:
indrasya shatru indrashatru tasya astra indrashatru astra, indraM hantuM
shaknuvat iti arthaH
What bothers me here is that shatru is only masculine (even in MW
dictionary). Hence the vigraha is inadmissible unless the word is a
nityasamasa.
Please help!
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Erratum to erratum: indrashatru is not neuter
> The statement I wanted to make was:
> ____(corrected)_______
> The bahuvrIhi would also not be neuter, if the true,
> "other" referrent (in this case, vR^itra) is not
> neuter. vR^itra happens to be masculine, so bahuvrIhi
> compounds referring to him will also be masculine.
> _______________________
>
> --- Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (in !ERROR!)
> > the bahuvrIhi would also not be neuter, if
> > "shatru" cannot be neuter.
> > --- Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> had
> > written:
> > > Just some clarification leaving apart the issue of
> > > the accent.
> > > You mentioned that 'indrashatru' (without visarga)
> > > is napumsaka.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sai Susarla)
Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 16 - 4
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dr. sarasvati mohan mahodayAyAH paryavekShaNe SrI vikrama santurkarasya anuvAdaH
shlokaH 4
tvamevAgne havyavAhastvameva parama.n haviH .
yajanti satraistvAmeva yaGYaishcha paramAdhvare .. 4..\
padavibhaagaH
tvam eva Agne havyavAhaH tvam eva parama.n haviH .
yajanti satraiH tvAm eva yaGYaiH cha paramAdhvare ..
anvayaH
Agne tvam eva havyavAhaH. tvam eva parama.n haviH.
paramAdhvare satraiH yaGYaiH cha tvAm eva yajanti.
pratipadaarthaH
Agne=O Agni-deva;
tvam=you are;
eva=only;
havyavAhaH=the one who carries the oblations;
tvam=you are;
eva=only;
parama.n=the best;
haviH=offering;
paramAdhvare=In a great religious ceremony, soma-sacrifice;
satraiH=by long sacrifical sessions, sacrifice in general;
yaGYaiH=by the sacrificial rites, acts of worship;
cha=and;
tvAm=to you;
eva=only;
yajanti=are worshipped;
anuvAdaH
Brihaspati to Agni deva: O Agni-deva, you are the one who carries the oblations.
You are the best oblation. In a great religious ceremony, by yagnas and sacrifices,
you only are worshipped.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:39:22 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] more on indrashatrur vardhasva
To: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "sanskrit digest"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tvashta was performing a sacrifice to produce a person (or device) capable of killing
Indra (in revenge of Indra killing his son). Accordingly 'indrashatruH vardhasva' is a
sacrificial pronouncement. The sacrifice was creating indrashatru (device) or
indrashatruH (this is more correct since the outcome was vrittra). So Tvashta is just
pronouncing 'tvaM vardhasva' or the equivalent 'indrashatruH vardhasva' ='(tvaM)
indrashatruH vardhasva' .(also 'v^Ridh' is used only in Atmanepada but with exception
can be used as Parasmaipada in the madhyama future, aorist, conditional and
desiderative.)
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: P.K.Ramakrishnan
To: sanskrit digest
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] more on indrashatrur vardhasva
IndrashatruH is prathama purusha ekavachanam.
vardhasva is madhyama purusha ekavachanam.
How do these match?
PKR
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