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Today's Topics:
1. na and Na in vibhakti (Jay Vaidya)
2. Re: On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam (Ambujam Raman)
3. spelling correction (Jay Vaidya)
4. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 12 (A. R. Srikrishnan)
5. Sanskrit Puzzle No.2 (peekayar)
6. Re: Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 12 (Vis Tekumalla)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] na and Na in vibhakti
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
avaxIt Vis Tekumalla:
> I recall three rules from a long ago lesson
> regarding the usage of "Na" and "na" when declining
> subantas.
The rules you refer to are not only for sup-pratyayas.
They are applicable to all "n" which follow (never
precede) a r/R^i/shh within a pada (pada approximately
means "word"). They are never applicable if the "n"
happens to be the end of the pada ("word"), e.g.,
raamaan
1. "n" changes to "N" if it immediately follows a ra,
R^i, or shh in the same pada ("word") -- but it cannot
be at the end of the pada ("word")
e.g. r -- pUrNam (meaning "full")
R^i - pitR^iNAm (shhashhThii bahuvachanam of
pitR^i)
shh - mushhNaati ("he/she/it steals")
2. If any of the following list come between the r,
R^i, shh and the following (never preceding) "n" to be
changed, the change still happens. Anything outside of
the list below shields the "n" from change.
list: all vowels, h, y, v, r, k-varga, p-varga, the
prefix A, the Agama called num
e.g., vowel: vR^ishhaNam, giriNaa, kuruNaa, obstacles
of a, i, u respectively
k-varga, p-varga + vowel: arkeNa, sarpeNa
multiple: gaargyaayaNa: There are g,y,aa,y,a --
so many obstacles, but all from within the list.
3. "N", "l" etc are not within the list. So the
shielded "n" is protected from change.
e.g.: karNena, saralaanAm
4. If the pada ("word") is in fact a samAsa,
generally, the "n" to "N" change does not take place
if the r,R^i,shh are in the first part of the
compound, and the "n" in the second part. There are
several exceptions listed, e.g., aparaaNhaH
(afternoon), but I will not enumerate them here.
The following rule assumed by Vis gaaru is not
necessary, and also sometimes incorrect:
> Also, regardless whether the word contains "ra" or
> "Sha," if the word itself contains a "na" or "Na,"
> the declined word should also use a "na."
> Examples: naaradena, guNinA, vanaani (for naarada,
> guNi, and vana)
In the examples given, the last "n" in naaradena is
protected from the influence of the "r" by the "d",
which is not in the list above.
For guNinA and vanaani, the last "n" have no r,R^i or
shh to influence them.
Also consider nareNa and nR^iNam: the conjugated words
contain the "n" sound "nara" and "nR^i", but the last
"n" is unprotected from the influence of the "r" and
"R^i", respectively, and is converted to a "N".
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:31:15 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam
To: "Vidhyanath Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
priya raoji
Your reference Panini 3.4.35 (shuShkacuurNaruukSheShu piShaH) addresses the
special use of Namul with the dhatu 'piSh' (to grind). I cannot see how it
would apply to the context described by ARS. However I will wait also to
hear from him.
I do realize that the 'aM' gerund is not totally congruent to 'tvA' and
hence shades of uses not described by Panini who was very restrictive are
extant.
In defence of Whitney I should add that he acknowledges the occurrence of
'aM' gerund 'especially in the Brahmanas and Sutras' as well as the sporadic
occurrence in Rig and Atharva vedas.
Interestingly the increasing use of the gerund to describe contemporaneous
activity is cited in Buddhist Sanskrit literature (Renou) which is outside
Paninian domain. It does suggest that Pandit Jagannatha had more liberal
taste in language as he had in his private life ;-)
Your 'soap-box' rhetoric will be incomplete until you spell out your views
on the dates of Ramayana and Mahabharata ;-)
Raman
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] spelling correction
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Here my native language marAThI shows in the error:
The -Nh- combination is is legal is marAThI but not in
sa.nskR^it --
I wrote:
> e.g., aparaaNhaH (afternoon)...
The correct form is: aparaahNaH ("afternoon")
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:35:54 +0530
From: "A. R. Srikrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 12
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam
----------------------------------
namaste ||
Yes, the suutra that I was refering to is the same that Sri Rao cited: 3.4.45
("upamaane karmaNi ca"). (This governs the kriyaavisheShanam's that I quoted earlier:
ikShubhanjam, gajabhanjam)
I would also like to highlight a couple of points regarding the usage & the context
being discussed here:
1. "ktVa" - type usage of Namul: This usage is probably more often seen in
'dvirukti' (said twice to indicate continuity/accompanying
action, as mentioned by Sri Rao): like, paayam paayam nR^ityati = peetva peetva
nR^ityati, gaayam gaayam carati etc. In this usage, I think it is *not* very
rare/infrequent, as I can readily recall a few instances of it, even from my limited
exposure !
However, in samaasa, like sudhaapaayam, on the usage of "ktva" type of Namul,
(I quote Sri Rao): "Panini's rules restrict the usage of Namul to specified
situations" like, pariipsa/action in a hurry is intended - (sorry that I dont recall
the citation no. of this suutra)
2. The problem with the order that Sri Raman proposed: Apart from question on
sudhaapaayam, the order proposed does suffer from severe duuraanvaya, a doSha,
usually avoided by great poets.
ALSO, if we look back at the original mail (of Sri Vis Tekumalla) on this, the
meaning given (I guess) by the scholar (Prof. Sriramachndradu) who quoted it, is as:
"O Ganga! Those men who drink your water, free from all dangers, as they drink the
nectar, live on the earth as the gods live" - Indicating that he interprets
sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam as kriyaavisheShaNam to "drink (your water)" and to
"live (on earth)" respectively.
Just my thoughts...
Thanks !
Srikrishnan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Today's Topics:
>
>
> 2. Re: On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam (Vidhyanath Rao)
> =======================================================
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:29:04 -0400
>From: "Vidhyanath Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
>
>
>>ARSji:
>>Could you kindly give references to the Panini Sutras relating to your
>>discussion?
>>
>>
>
>If I may jump in here: I presume the reference is to 3.4.35
>
>
>
>>The 'Namulanta' (aM affix) as I understand is
>>equivalent to the 'tvA' affix which is a gerund
>>(adverbial indeclinable participle).
>>
>>
>
>Not quite: As a genral rule, ktvaa is for actions that precede the
>action specified by the main verb. Namul was originally for accompanying
>action, and expanded into description of manner (which are pragmatically
>difficult to distinguish). For example: (from aitreya braahmaNa) yad
>vigraham anubruuyaat, "if one were to say (the Rks) piecemeal" is not
>quite the same as yad vigRhyaanubruuyaat, "if one were to separate (the
>Rks) and then say (them)".
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 02:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Puzzle No.2
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In the following SitaraavaNasamvaada jharii Raavana condems Rama in 3 paadas and half.
Sita replies in the last half paada -
kimare chelam badhaanaasakRit.
Sita's reply itself has two meanings.
You may send your solutions to me upto 15th Sep. I will post the solution on 18th Sep.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
raamo vaachyativipriyo$tilalitashriistanvi niilaM vapuaH
bibhratkaananasiimni raakSasalayaayattasvayaM vetsi taM.
maaM pashyaativichakSaNo$smi bahudhaalaapaikaviirosmyahaM
labdhshiiprachayastathaasmi kimare chelaM badhaanaasakR^it..
ramae vaCyitiviàyaeitliltïIStiNv nIl< vpu>
ibæTkannsIiç ra]slyayÄSvy< veiTs t<,
ma< pZyaitivc][aeiSm b÷xalapEkvIraeSMyh<
lBxïIàcyStwaiSm ikmre cel< bxanask«t!.
---------------------------------
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 12
To: "A. R. Srikrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sri A.R. Srikishnan uvaacha:
"ALSO, if we look back at the original mail (of Sri Vis Tekumalla) on this, the
meaning given (I guess) by the scholar (Prof. Sriramachndradu) who quoted it, is as:
"O Ganga! Those men who drink your water, free from all dangers, as they drink the
nectar, live on the earth as the gods live" - Indicating that he interprets
sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam as kriyaavisheShaNam to "drink (your water)" and to
"live (on earth)" respectively."
aam, yes; concerning the meaning of the shloka, I was quoting what Prof.
Sriramachandrudu said in his book.
"A. R. Srikrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam
----------------------------------
namaste ||
Yes, the suutra that I was refering to is the same that Sri Rao cited: 3.4.45
("upamaane karmaNi ca"). (This governs the kriyaavisheShanam's that I quoted earlier:
ikShubhanjam, gajabhanjam)
I would also like to highlight a couple of points regarding the usage & the context
being discussed here:
1. "ktVa" - type usage of Namul: This usage is probably more often seen in 'dvirukti'
(said twice to indicate continuity/accompanying
action, as mentioned by Sri Rao): like, paayam paayam nR^ityati = peetva peetva
nR^ityati, gaayam gaayam carati etc. In this usage, I think it is *not* very
rare/infrequent, as I can readily recall a few instances of it, even from my limited
exposure !
However, in samaasa, like sudhaapaayam, on the usage of "ktva" type of Namul, (I quote
Sri Rao): "Panini's rules restrict the usage of Namul to specified situations" like,
pariipsa/action in a hurry is intended - (sorry that I dont recall the citation no. of
this suutra)
2. The problem with the order that Sri Raman proposed: Apart from question on
sudhaapaayam, the order proposed does suffer from severe duuraanvaya, a doSha, usually
avoided by great poets.
ALSO, if we look back at the original mail (of Sri Vis Tekumalla) on this, the meaning
given (I guess) by the scholar (Prof. Sriramachndradu) who quoted it, is as: "O Ganga!
Those men who drink your water, free from all dangers, as they drink the nectar, live
on the earth as the gods live" - Indicating that he interprets sudhaapaayam &
nirjaraavaasam as kriyaavisheShaNam to "drink (your water)" and to "live (on earth)"
respectively.
Just my thoughts...
Thanks !
Srikrishnan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Today's Topics:
>
>
> 2. Re: On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam (Vidhyanath Rao)
> =======================================================
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:29:04 -0400
>From: "Vidhyanath Rao"
>Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] On sudhaapaayam & nirjaraavaasam
>To:
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
>
>
>>ARSji:
>>Could you kindly give references to the Panini Sutras relating to your
>>discussion?
>>
>>
>
>If I may jump in here: I presume the reference is to 3.4.35
>
>
>
>>The 'Namulanta' (aM affix) as I understand is
>>equivalent to the 'tvA' affix which is a gerund
>>(adverbial indeclinable participle).
>>
>>
>
>Not quite: As a genral rule, ktvaa is for actions that precede the
>action specified by the main verb. Namul was originally for accompanying
>action, and expanded into description of manner (which are pragmatically
>difficult to distinguish). For example: (from aitreya braahmaNa) yad
>vigraham anubruuyaat, "if one were to say (the Rks) piecemeal" is not
>quite the same as yad vigRhyaanubruuyaat, "if one were to separate (the
>Rks) and then say (them)".
>
>
>
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