Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Quiz # 7 - Summary of comments (Sai)
2. Re: Quiz # 7 Answers (Sai)
3. Re: Quiz # 7 Answers (Sai)
4. Re: Quiz # 7 - Summary of comments (Sai)
5. comments on answers quizz # 7 (peekayar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:44:57 -0700
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Quiz # 7 - Summary of comments
To: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a small request. Could you please post your quiz and give answers
in such a way that we can work on it over the weekend?
You are currently posting it on Tuesday and posting results on Friday.
Last week I got to answering your questions, but only by delaying my
work. This week I couldn't even get to the quiz due to too much work.
It would be nicer if you posted the quiz, say on wednesday and ask for
results, say around saturday or sunday.
It would be more fruitful if we have a couple of days to discuss the
answers before jumping on to the next quiz.
Another opinion:
You are posting some very nice Slokas/sUktas. However, for people to
appreciate their meaning and enjoy their rasa, they need time
for discussion and assimilation. It's like squeezing a sugar cane.
Each of your questions is like an ikShu-khaNDa (sugar cane piece).
The more we squeeze (by chewing on it), the more juice we get. If we
throw it too early, we lose the rasa. Here, our discussion does the job
of squeezing. The 'mArmikaH ko mara.ndAnAm antareNa madhuvratam'
Those who attempt the translation might have already squeezed it and enjoyed
its rasa well, but for the rest of us Srotas (listeners), reading the
answers and jumping to the next one too fast deprives us of the rasAsvAdana.
Now to comments on answers:
> I agree with Mr. Ramakrishnan's comments on Q's 6 and 7. "ApAta" in Q. 2 should be
> ok.
>
> Q.2. sarasatyAH=??, is there a typo here -> sarasvatyAH= of Sarasvati devi;
> (Mr. Santurkar)
>
> Not a typo. I don't know if it's wrong. Could Sarasati be an ifc word (in fine
> composition) for Sarasvati? Can someone throw some light on this?
One meaning of saraH is 'the one who moves' i.e., the wind.
sarasatI could mean the wife of vAyu (I don't know who that is).
In the context, sarasvatI alone is appropriate.
Also, if you go by the rhythm of that Sloka, sarasvatyAH seems to go
better with the flow. sarasatyAH seems too short.
sa.ngItamapi sAhitya.m sarasvatyAH stanadvaya.m.
ekamApAtamadhura.m anyadAlochanAmR^ita.m..
I differ with Ramakrishnan's interpretation 'ApAda'. There is no need for words
in sangItam, whereas sAhityam needs words. Hence 'ApAta-madhuram' makes more
sense.
As vikrama put it,
ApAta = descending, rushing upon, at that instant, current moment.
sangItam is descending honey, or honey pouring down. i.e., it can be
enjoyed directly, as is - no need for pre-processing or Alochana
(reflection, thinking, analysis etc.) to enjoy music.
But vikrama says, sAhityam is perceived as nectar.
Here, I differ. This interpretation doesn't show the distinction
between music and literature that the Sloka is trying to convey. If both
are nectar, what's the difference?
AlochanA+amR^itaM. The question is how the words alochana and amR^itam
must be associated.
AlochanA (noun) = seeing, perceiving, considering, reflecting, reflection.
If we make it chaturthI then it makes sense.
AlochanAt amR^itaM AlochanAmR^itam = upon/due to reflection, amR^itam
Literature is nectar upon reflection. i.e., it is nectar that oozes out only
when we reflect on it i.e., ponder over it.
My question is, can we say that AlochanAmR^itam is
chaturthI tatpuruSha samAsa (causal relation)?
-----------------
Therefore my translation is,
Music and literature are the two breasts of Sarasvati (the Mother of learning).
One is descending honey (that can be assimilated and enjoyed directly,
as is), while the other is nectar upon reflection (i.e., it requires
reflection for enjoyment).
-----------------
ViSveSvara mahodaya,
> lubdhakadhIvarapishunA niShkAraNavairiNo jagati.
> dhIvara-shunA when I answered the question (note the shunA in chaturthi)
> Was I wrong when said "for a dog" in my answer?
^pishunA -> in your hunger for rasa, you ate the akShara 'pi'
and then reflected on its meaning :-)
That is why, sAhityam is not ApAta madhuram, it is instead
AlochanAmR^itam. Just kidding :-)
Even if you interpret sunA, there it is visarga lOpa (removal of aH) i.e,
it must be lubdhaka-dhIvara-shunAH
i.e., prathamA (1st), not chaturthI (4th) vibhakti.
> Q.7. shyAma(s) has several meanings, but I went with "slender creeper" because the
> poet was comparing different parts of her body with different nice things found in
> nature.
> I believe the "slender creeper" meaning foots the bill very well in the context of
> the shloka.
> Any comments?
I will give my comments on that Sloka in a separate mail.
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:48:54 -0700
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Quiz # 7 Answers
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> shyAmAsu a~Nga.m chakitahariNIprekShaNe dR^iShTipAta.m
> vaktrachChAyA.m shashini shikhinA.m barhabhAreShu keshAn.
> utpashyAmi pratanuShu nadIvIchiShu bhrUvilAsAn
> hanta ekasmin kvachit api na te chaNDI sAdr.hshyam asti..
shyAmA is a specific plant, or a fig tree (MW doesn't describe the plant)
It also means a (young) woman who reached puberty but has no children
yet, and hence of slender shape.
Ramakrishna-varya said,
> shyAmaasu = in middle aged women who have not given birth to any child
The word middle-aged could mislead. shyAmA doesn't necessarily mean
middle-aged women, hinting that they crossed their prime youth (and have
less hope of having children). It simply means those who haven't given
birth to a child yet, and hence of of slender shape.
But as viSveSvara says, the 'dark-branched plant' meaning alone makes
more sense to me here. If a lover tries to look for the beauty of a
woman he wants to court in the limbs of other slender women, that
doesn't bode well for his prospects of wooing the woman isn't it :-)
Also, he looks up (utpaSyati) at those
considered the best in various features of physical beauty to see if any
of them come close to the chaNDi's features, but fails.
Nothing beats the unsteady looks of a startled deer in beauty.
Nothing beats a face like that of the moon.
Nothing beats a hair with the softness and beauty of a peacock's richly
thick feathers.
Nothing beats eyebrows that are as thin, delicate and spontaneously playful as
a river's gentle ripples.
bhrU-vilAsAn = play of the eyebrows. I like vikrama's meaning more than
the "movement of eyebrows" meaning of viSveSvara.
The poet says, 'ekasmin-kvachit-api',
na kvachit = not even a little
akasmin api = in any of the above
sAdR^iSyamasti = is there any resemblance.
Which chaNDi won't fall for this praise? :-)
Look at the word he used to address that lady, "chaNDi". Wow!
viSveSvara's
"chaNDi = warm/passionate one"
meaning is not quite to the mark.
chaNDi means a *hot*, ardently passionate lady.
Here is a sanskrit word for a 'hot babe' :-)
> 6.\ vidyAkalpena marutA meghAnA.m bhUyasAmapi.
> brahmaNIva vivartAnA.m kvApi vipraLayaH kR^itaH.. (10 pts.)
> = Just as knowledge changes the perceptiom of Brahman after dissolving illusion, a
> wind diffuses dense clouds.
Just for clarity of those like me trying to think in sanskrit,
I attempt to prosify this:
bhUyasAm api meghAnA.m vipraLayaH kR^itaH - kena? - marutA
(by wind, even numerous clouds are dissolved, diffused)
kva+api vivartAnA.m brahmaNi vipraLayaH kR^itaH iva - kena? - vidyAkalpena
(just as, by the advent of knowledge, the deluded get dissolved in
Brahman, kvApi - whoever they may be)
bhUyas = becoming to a greater degree, more numerous or abundant
bhUyasAm meghAnAm = numerous clouds' (ShaShTI)
vipraLayaH = dissolution, disintegration
vivartaH = one revolving round and round, whirlpool
deluded person is a derived meaning.
vidyAkalpena = by means/advent of knowledge
Hence the dawn of knowledge disintegrates delusion and merges one in
Brahman, like the wind diffuses clouds (and merges them in the sky).
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:56:08 -0700
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Quiz # 7 Answers
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sai uvaacha:
> Hence the dawn of knowledge disintegrates delusion and merges one in
> Brahman, like the wind diffuses clouds (and merges them in the sky).
Oops! it's the other way round, as Ramakrishna-varya said:
The wind diffuses clouds (and merges them into the sky),
like the down of knowledge disintegrates delusion and merges the deluded
in Brahman.
Sorry for the spam.
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:44:37 -0700
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Quiz # 7 - Summary of comments
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Another Oops. It must be panchamI, not chaturthI vibhakti below.
Sorry.
- Sai.
> Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If we make it chaturthI then it makes sense.
> AlochanAt amR^itaM AlochanAmR^itam = upon/due to reflection, amR^itam
> Literature is nectar upon reflection. i.e., it is nectar that oozes out only
> when we reflect on it i.e., ponder over it.
>
> My question is, can we say that AlochanAmR^itam is
> chaturthI tatpuruSha samAsa (causal relation)?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:27:26 -0800 (PST)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] comments on answers quizz # 7
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please see attachment.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
-------------- next part --------------
Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Quiz # 7 Answers (Vis Tekumalla)
2. Quiz # 7 - Summary of comments (Vis Tekumalla)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments on the meanings for quizz # 7
2. sa.ngItamapi sAhityam sarasatyAH stanadvayam
sarasatyAH=??, is there a typo here -> sarasvatyAH= of Sarasvati
devi;
(Mr. Santurkar)
Not a typo. I don't know if it's wrong. Could Sarasati be an ifc word
(in fine composition) for Sarasvati? Can someone throw some light on
this? - Tekumalla.
There is no word as sarasati. It should be sarasvatI only.
sarasvatyAH stanadvaya.m should be wriiten as
sarasvatyAstanadvaya.m (sandhi mistake) (visarga becomes sa before sa)
ekamApAtamadhuram anyadAlochanAmR^ta.m
We have two topics for comparison. One is music and the other is literature. Both
are sweet. Music is sweet in every one of its (pAda) part i.e. ApAda. ApAta or flowing
down is not appropriate.
4. mR^igamInasajjanAnA.m tR^iNajalasa.ntoShavihitavR^ittInAm
lubdhakadhIvarapishunA niShkAraNa vairiNo jagati
In this world, for a hunter, fisherman, and a dog (may be interpreted
as a bad person), there is enmity for no reason with animals, fish, and
good-hearted people who are ordained to exist on grass and water, and
happily go about their business without bothering others. (Author:
Bhartrihari)
Here, Mr.Vis Tekumalla seems to have confused pishuna with shuna meaning dog.
Pishuna means duSta or wicked.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
sanskrit mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7
***************************************
