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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Novice] Request for translations etc. (r_vani ramakrishnan)
2. [L2] Translation request (was: help needed) (Naresh Cuntoor)
3. Re: [Novice] Request for translations etc. (Pankaj Gupta)
4. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed) (Phillip Ernest)
5. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (kamalesh pathak)
6. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed) (kamalesh pathak)
7. Re: [Bulk] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
(Ambujam Raman)
8. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Anand Mishra)
9. [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Jay Vaidya)
10. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
(Cynthia Churchill)
11. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Naresh Cuntoor)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 03:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: r_vani ramakrishnan <r_van...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Novice] Request for translations etc.
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <706898.93902...@web110706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Friend, Mr.Pankaj,
Thank you for the mail from you and congratulate you for the will that you have
got to learn Samskrit.
I want to know where you are residing ( city) in India or outside.
>From the website samskritabharathi.org, you may find the nearest centre of
>that organisation and attend their 10-days sibirams for samskritam speaking
>course.?? And further, they have got simple books to further your knowledge in
>that beautiful language.
Others also will guide in this group, I hope.
With regards,
D.Ramakrishnan.
--- On Mon, 8/6/09, Pankaj Gupta <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com> wrote:
From: Pankaj Gupta <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [Novice] Request for translations etc.
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 8:58 AM
Hi
I want to request every one who has basic familiarity with Sanskrit, or
familiarity with some sanskrit texts - to share and write translations of
any kinds of Sanskrit texts. There are not too many translations available
on the net, many of the available translations omit original Sanskrit, and
many are written with the intent to simply convey the meaning of the text,
instead of as an aid to learning Sanskrit.
It would be great if people who know sanskrit, help other people like myself
learn and spread Sanskrit. I have found it a daunting task to learn
Sanskrit. Nevertheless, over the years I have gained some familiarity and am
able to decipher and understand simpler texts - not all of it but some
portions, like a few lines from Mahabharat would be clear, and then the next
few lines would be totally above me and so on.
I belong to the school of 'learn by example'. Grammer etc. is not really for
me. However, I have found Sandhi rules etc. to be very helpful.
But really, if we could have translations of diverse Sanskrit texts, maybe
giving word meanings or just plain explaination of what's going on - it
would be great. Mahabharat, for example, proves a huge amount of text, with
context familiarity to a lot of people here. I reqest knowledgeable members
to provide learning to others. It is a great way to spread the knowledge of
Sanskrit.
Thanks and my regards to all.
Pankaj
-----Original Message-----
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Naresh Cuntoor
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:36 PM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: [Sanskrit] [ADMIN] Please read: Revised list guidelines + additions
In the recent weeks the list has shown signs of shaking off its
dormancy. We hope it finds its voice again. The brief exchange of
emails, however, required us to revisit some list policies, as
summarized here. If you have any questions, comments or
clarifications, please write to the moderators at
sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu . Please do not write to the mailing list
itself.
0. Emails about Sanskrit or in Sanskrit?
This is completely up to you. You are welcome to write in Sanskrit
using devanagari (unicode) or itrans or transliterated text. If you
choose to write in devanagari (say, using baraha), please note that
not all email clients can decipher unicode.
Questions, discussions and informative postings about Sanskrit,
grammar, literature, etc. are all welcome.
All other emails should be sent to the moderators ONLY (address above)
and not to the list.
1. Moderated vs. unmoderated --
The list is presently under moderation. Our policy will be to place
everyone under moderation by default. When a member sends a mail that
is of relevance to the list, his/her moderation flag will be turned
off. That means that he/she can post messages to the list directly
until we have reason to turn the moderation back on. The decision to
have a moderated list is to simply filter out spam / emails unrelated
to the list.
2. On whether to move to yahoo / google groups.
For now, we have decided to continue with the existing setup. The
current system provides most of the features that yahoo / google
groups provide (more details below). We may revisit this issue in the
future should the need arise, but we have tried to ensure that most of
the advantages of such a move are satisfied here itself.
3. Please be aware that there are various options for following
discussions on the mailing list
(a) Receiving individual emails directly to your inbox -- with or
without tagging (see below).
(b) Receiving a daily digest
(c) Turning off mail delivery and reading mails on the archive
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/
4. Tagging - new feature.
For better email management, we request every poster who initiates a
thread to include one of the following tags in the subject line:
[L1] or [Lesson] or [Novice]
-- For beginners' queries
--For those who can't read or understand Sanskrit
[L2] or [Grammar]
--Discussions on grammar
--Postings may be in sanskrit (itrans or unicode)
[L2] or [Literature]
--Discussions on poetry, shlokas, etc.
--Postings may be in sanskrit (itrans or unicode)
When you reply to a message using the "Reply" or "Reply to all"
feature of your email, you do not need to worry about this. Emails
have to be tagged only once.
If you choose to receive a daily digest, this option is not very useful.
5. Why tagging?
You can customize which of these emails you want to receive in your
inbox (all members should choose to receive Admin emails).? To
customize, please go to
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/options/sanskrit
and customize the 'topic categories' section.
6. Emails are not tagged automatically based on content. Also, you may
miss emails in case emails are wrongly tagged or not tagged at all.
7. The list consists of members whose level of proficiency in the
language is varied. Everybody is welcome to post. Beginners may want
to look at some of the FAQs mentioned below before posting.
http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/learning_tools.html
http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/sanskrit/tutor.html
http://sanskritlinks.blogspot.com/
http://www.speaksanskrit.org/otherResources.shtml
[This list is not meant to exhaustive.]
8. Attachments cannot be sent to the mailing list. If discussions
require documents to be communicated to the members, please send a
note to sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu and we may host the document and
provide a web link to access the document. [For example, pdfs can be
shared this way.]
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
On behalf of admin,
Naresh
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:35:03 -0400
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f4ce5f9f0906090535k4b309c7ah53b1a9adc57d8...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Please see the message below.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
Subject: help needed
To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
Hi,
Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
Engineering" ?
Regards,
Binil
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:43:21 -0500
From: "Pankaj Gupta" <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Novice] Request for translations etc.
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <004901c9e908$41208430$fb140...@pankajpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear D. Ramakrishnan
Thank you for your kind words. I will try to get in touch with Samskrita
Bharati. My current work and other committments prohibits attending their
course, but I think their books might be very helpful to me.
I am in New York.
Thanks and Regards,
Pankaj
_____
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of r_vani ramakrishnan
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 5:43 AM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Novice] Request for translations etc.
Dear Friend, Mr.Pankaj,
Thank you for the mail from you and congratulate you for the will that you
have got to learn Samskrit.
I want to know where you are residing ( city) in India or outside.
>From the website samskritabharathi.org, you may find the nearest centre of
that organisation and attend their 10-days sibirams for samskritam speaking
course. And further, they have got simple books to further your knowledge
in that beautiful language.
Others also will guide in this group, I hope.
With regards,
D.Ramakrishnan.
--- On Mon, 8/6/09, Pankaj Gupta <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com> wrote:
From: Pankaj Gupta <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [Novice] Request for translations etc.
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 8:58 AM
Hi
I want to request every one who has basic familiarity with Sanskrit, or
familiarity with some sanskrit texts - to share and write translations of
any kinds of Sanskrit texts. There are not too many translations available
on the net, many of the available translations omit original Sanskrit, and
many are written with the intent to simply convey the meaning of the text,
instead of as an aid to learning Sanskrit.
It would be great if people who know sanskrit, help other people like myself
learn and spread Sanskrit. I have found it a daunting task to learn
Sanskrit. Nevertheless, over the years I have gained some familiarity and am
able to decipher and understand simpler texts - not all of it but some
portions, like a few lines from Mahabharat would be clear, and then the next
few lines would be totally above me and so on.
I belong to the school of 'learn by example'. Grammer etc. is not really for
me. However, I have found Sandhi rules etc. to be very helpful.
But really, if we could have translations of diverse Sanskrit texts, maybe
giving word meanings or just plain explaination of what's going on - it
would be great. Mahabharat, for example, proves a huge amount of text, with
context familiarity to a lot of people here. I reqest knowledgeable members
to provide learning to others. It is a great way to spread the knowledge of
Sanskrit.
Thanks and my regards to all.
Pankaj
-----Original Message-----
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Naresh Cuntoor
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:36 PM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: [Sanskrit] [ADMIN] Please read: Revised list guidelines + additions
In the recent weeks the list has shown signs of shaking off its
dormancy. We hope it finds its voice again. The brief exchange of
emails, however, required us to revisit some list policies, as
summarized here. If you have any questions, comments or
clarifications, please write to the moderators at
sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu . Please do not write to the mailing list
itself.
0. Emails about Sanskrit or in Sanskrit?
This is completely up to you. You are welcome to write in Sanskrit
using devanagari (unicode) or itrans or transliterated text. If you
choose to write in devanagari (say, using baraha), please note that
not all email clients can decipher unicode.
Questions, discussions and informative postings about Sanskrit,
grammar, literature, etc. are all welcome.
All other emails should be sent to the moderators ONLY (address above)
and not to the list.
1. Moderated vs. unmoderated --
The list is presently under moderation. Our policy will be to place
everyone under moderation by default. When a member sends a mail that
is of relevance to the list, his/her moderation flag will be turned
off. That means that he/she can post messages to the list directly
until we have reason to turn the moderation back on. The decision to
have a moderated list is to simply filter out spam / emails unrelated
to the list.
2. On whether to move to yahoo / google groups.
For now, we have decided to continue with the existing setup. The
current system provides most of the features that yahoo / google
groups provide (more details below). We may revisit this issue in the
future should the need arise, but we have tried to ensure that most of
the advantages of such a move are satisfied here itself.
3. Please be aware that there are various options for following
discussions on the mailing list
(a) Receiving individual emails directly to your inbox -- with or
without tagging (see below).
(b) Receiving a daily digest
(c) Turning off mail delivery and reading mails on the archive
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/
4. Tagging - new feature.
For better email management, we request every poster who initiates a
thread to include one of the following tags in the subject line:
[L1] or [Lesson] or [Novice]
-- For beginners' queries
--For those who can't read or understand Sanskrit
[L2] or [Grammar]
--Discussions on grammar
--Postings may be in sanskrit (itrans or unicode)
[L2] or [Literature]
--Discussions on poetry, shlokas, etc.
--Postings may be in sanskrit (itrans or unicode)
When you reply to a message using the "Reply" or "Reply to all"
feature of your email, you do not need to worry about this. Emails
have to be tagged only once.
If you choose to receive a daily digest, this option is not very useful.
5. Why tagging?
You can customize which of these emails you want to receive in your
inbox (all members should choose to receive Admin emails). To
customize, please go to
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/options/sanskrit
and customize the 'topic categories' section.
6. Emails are not tagged automatically based on content. Also, you may
miss emails in case emails are wrongly tagged or not tagged at all.
7. The list consists of members whose level of proficiency in the
language is varied. Everybody is welcome to post. Beginners may want
to look at some of the FAQs mentioned below before posting.
http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/learning_tools.html
http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/sanskrit/tutor.html
http://sanskritlinks.blogspot.com/
http://www.speaksanskrit.org/otherResources.shtml
[This list is not meant to exhaustive.]
8. Attachments cannot be sent to the mailing list. If discussions
require documents to be communicated to the members, please send a
note to sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu and we may host the document and
provide a web link to access the document. [For example, pdfs can be
shared this way.]
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
On behalf of admin,
Naresh
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
_____
Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India Travel
Click
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:13:38 +0900
From: Phillip Ernest <phillip.ern...@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <20090610001338.qasxz4p68s8ss...@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Quoting Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>:
> Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
> Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
> Engineering" ?
Just curious to know what the planned use of such terms would be.
Phillip
Pune
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:37:43 +0530
From: kamalesh pathak <kamleshsomn...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<171bab240906090607p3af1decek2178aca350ecf...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
excellent efforts to expand the divine language with its origin .
hats off to your appeciable work
and heartful regards for the best work.
only one request i will put to you sir ,
Audio prononcing will be the best aid .
because
i am from somnath ( gujarat ) where is difference of pronouncing even in
vedas from south.
and i too like to learn pAnini ( of course here is somnath sanskrit
university but thing is that i can't join that at the age of 47 but i want
to present many many things from divine sanskrit and that's why i want to
learn sanskrit.
with warmest regards and jay somanath,
kamalesh pathak
On 09/06/2009, Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> keywords: [l2], [grammar]
>
> sarvebhyo namaH !
>
> I want to start a new dhaaraavaahikam or series called "vyaakaraNa
> vaibhavam" to help us appreciate the beautiful systematic structure of
> the sanskrit language. A couple of months ago, Sarada (my wife) and I
> started taking weekly classes in Bangalore on laghu siddhAnta kaumudI
> (the commentary to commentary of Panini's aShTaadhyaayii) from Srimaan
> venkaTa ramaNa bhaTTa mahodaya, a scholar and excellent teacher in
> Sanskrit who lives in Hosakote, 20 km away from Bangalore.
>
> One dimension of Sanskrit's beauty lies in its conciseness and
> precision of expression. I heard many things about the remarkable
> scientific approach of Sanskrit grammarians and wanted to appreciate
> it first hand. As a novice to grammar myself, my hope through this
> series is threefold:
> 1) to tickle scholars on this list to come out and share their wisdom
> with others,
> 2) to irritate them enough to correct me by exposing my ignorance :-)
> 3) to dispel the notion that Sanskrit grammar is esoteric and hard to
> understand, by giving a more intuitive explanation of the concepts. I
> feel that as scientists, we are all well-equipped to routinely handle
> complex ideas if only those ideas can be presented in a way palatable
> to the present-day style of expression.
>
> I have been attempting to understand Sanskrit grammar that way. We all
> know that the best way to imbibe knowledge is to share it with others.
> By writing about it, our own concepts will be clarified. Feel free to
> add more to what I say as well as correct my errors as we go along.
> I am a total novice to Sanskrit grammar and am eager to learn.
>
> I will be using laghu siddhAnta kaumudii as the text. You don't have
> to read this book, but looking at it would help. I will be using the
> ITRANS transliteration convention to write sanskrit in english
> alphabet. Though writing in sanskrit script also would help, that's
> too much work.
>
> If some expert on the list could write a brief (2 paragraph) intro to
> Panini and his approach to grammar, I'd greatly appreciate it. The
> write up should generate audience interest in grammar without scaring
> them away. Hence the less technical it is, the better.
>
> natvA sarasvatIm devIm shuddhAm guNyaam karomyahaM |
> pANiniiya praveshAya laghu siddhAnta kaumudIM ||
>
> Let us start at the very beginning with maaheshvara sUtrANi, the very
> origin of Sanskrit alphabet and basis of Panini's grammar.
>
> 1) a i u N.h
> 2) R^i lR^ k.h
> 3) e o n.h
> 4) ai au ch.h
> 5) ha ya va ra t.h
> 6) la N.h
> 7) ~na ma ~na Na na m.h
> 8) jha bha ~n.h
> 9) gha Dha dha Sh.h
> 10) ja ba ga Da da sh.h
> 11) kha pha chha Tha tha cha Ta ta v.h
> 12) ka pa y.h
> 13) sha sa sa r.h
> 14) ha l.h
>
> (the .h at the end of a letter denotes halanta which means 'omit the
> akaara at the end' like in raam. Nothing complicated).
>
> If you remove the last alphabet in each line, you will get the
> complete Sanskrit alphabet.
> These 14 sounds were audible to Rishis when shiva/naTaraaja played his
> Dhakka (hand-held drum) 14 times at the end of his evening dance. If
> you read them aloud, they indeed sound like those of a drum.
> Panini has created an excellent concise convention to refer to
> aksharas (syllables) in his entire aShTadhyAyi. For instance, in any
> grammar rule if he says aN.h, it should be understood that he's
> referring to a, i and u.
> So, the short form for all Sanskrit vowels would be ach, which stands for
> a i u e o ai au
> and the short form for all Sanskrit consonants is hal, which stands for
> ha ya va ra la ~na ma ~Na Na na jha bha gha Dha dha ja ba ga Da da
>
> Cool, isn't it?
>
> Hence to understand Sanskrit grammar rules that follow, it is
> extremely important to thoroughly memorize these 14 sutras and recite
> them even when woken up from deep sleep (as our elders used to say).
>
> A small home work: Figure out what the following abbreviations mean:
> jash.h
> al.h
> hal.h
> yaN.h
>
> - Sai.
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:43:54 +0530
From: kamalesh pathak <kamleshsomn...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<171bab240906090613s483ad917x666348bfe794d...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
sir !
i think you have to prepare such words newly in the sense of modern
reference. eg.
in original sanskrit there was no word for ' Roti ' later it is added as
Rotikam or
ceiling fan as vAyu yantram .
such effotrs will help this language to survive and the most scintific
language will be re incarnated.
sorry for the odd suggession.
kamalesh pathak
On 09/06/2009, Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please see the message below.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
> Subject: help needed
> To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
> Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
> Engineering" ?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Binil
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:40:31 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <ambujamra...@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Bulk] [L2] Translation request (was: help
needed)
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <f53aa860c71c470381500bc147349...@ambujam>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Quantity = parimANaM
survey = nirIkSh
hence
quantity surveying = parimANanirIkShaNaM
quantity surveyor = parimANanirIkShaka
cost = mUlyaM
management = nirvahanaM
hence
cost-management = mUlayanirvahanaM
Dr.S. Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Naresh Cuntoor" <nares...@gmail.com>
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:35 AM
Subject: [Bulk] [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
> Please see the message below.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
> Subject: help needed
> To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
> Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
> Engineering" ?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Binil
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
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>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:48:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Anand Mishra <anand...@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <861910.30707...@web27506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Some suggestions marked between >> << tags:
On 09/06/2009, Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com> wrote:
keywords: [l2], [grammar]
sarvebhyo namaH !
I want to start a new dhaaraavaahikam or series called "vyaakaraNa
vaibhavam" to help us appreciate the beautiful systematic structure of
the sanskrit language. A couple of months ago, Sarada (my wife) and I
started taking weekly classes in Bangalore on laghu siddhAnta kaumudI
(the commentary to commentary of Panini's aShTaadhyaayii) from Srimaan
venkaTa ramaNa bhaTTa mahodaya, a scholar and excellent teacher in
Sanskrit who lives in Hosakote, 20 km away from Bangalore.
One dimension of Sanskrit's beauty lies in its conciseness and
precision of expression. >>You mean the grammar of pANini<< I heard many things
about the remarkable
scientific approach of Sanskrit grammarians and wanted to appreciate
it first hand. As a novice to grammar myself, my hope through this
series is threefold:
1) to tickle scholars on this list to come out and share their wisdom
with others,
2) to irritate them enough to correct me by exposing my ignorance :-)
3) to dispel the notion that Sanskrit grammar is esoteric and hard to
understand, by giving a more intuitive explanation of the concepts. I
feel that as scientists, we are all well-equipped to routinely handle
complex ideas if only those ideas can be presented in a way palatable
to the present-day style of expression.
I have been attempting to understand Sanskrit grammar that way. We all
know that the best way to imbibe knowledge is to share it with others.
By writing about it, our own concepts will be clarified. Feel free to
add more to what I say as well as correct my errors as we go along.
I am a total novice to Sanskrit grammar and am eager to learn.
I will be using laghu siddhAnta kaumudii as the text. You don't have
to read this book, but looking at it would help. I will be using the
ITRANS transliteration convention to write sanskrit in english
alphabet. Though writing in sanskrit script also would help, that's
too much work.>>For grammatical purpose phoneme based roman script is better
than syllable based devnAgarI script. This will be evident as you proceed. Of
course, this statement should not be considered as something against the
devanAgarI, which is very systematic script (but not suitable for grammarians).
In any case pANinian tradition, I think was originally an oral tradition.<<
If some expert on the list could write a brief (2 paragraph) intro to
Panini and his approach to grammar, I'd greatly appreciate it. The
write up should generate audience interest in grammar without scaring
them away. Hence the less technical it is, the better..
natvA sarasvatIm devIm shuddhAm guNyaam karomyahaM |
pANiniiya praveshAya laghu siddhAnta kaumudIM ||
>>You are not consistent in your transliteration scheme. Better follow one
>>scheme uniformly. E.g. in 'devIm' you write dIrgha i with 'I' and in
>>'pANiniiya' with double 'ii'. Similarly 'A' vs. 'aa'. It is also a good
>>practice to tag the sanskrit strings to seperate them from english strings in
>>a bilingual text. You can then display it easily in more than one script
>>including devanAgarI<<
Let us start at the very beginning with maaheshvara sUtrANi, the very
origin of Sanskrit alphabet and basis of Panini's grammar.
1) a i u N.h
2) R^i lR^ k.h
3) e o n.h
4) ai au ch.h
5) ha ya va ra t.h
6) la N.h
7) ~na ma ~na Na na m.h
8) jha bha ~n.h
9) gha Dha dha Sh.h
10) ja ba ga Da da sh.h
11) kha pha chha Tha tha cha Ta ta v.h
12) ka pa y.h
13) sha sa sa r..h
14) ha l.h
(the .h at the end of a letter denotes halanta which means 'omit the
akaara at the end' like in raam. Nothing complicated).
>>Here you are making a mistake. In 'N.h' you are not writing the vowel 'a'. Yo
>>do not need to omit it or take it out using halanta '.h'. In fact you do not
>>need the halanta symbol in roman script, which is the necessity of devanAgarI
>>only. There is no sound named 'halanta' for which you need a symbol. It is
>>used to indicate that 'the present string ends with consonant'= hal+anta. hal
>>is the pratyAhAra representing all the consonants. So: a i u N etc. is
>>enough. Do not use '.h' for halanta. Instead use it for 'visarga', for which
>>you need a symbol.<<
If you remove the last alphabet in each line, you will get the
complete Sanskrit alphabet.
These 14 sounds were audible to Rishis when shiva/naTaraaja played his
Dhakka (hand-held drum) 14 times at the end of his evening dance. If
you read them aloud, they indeed sound like those of a drum.
Panini has created an excellent concise convention to refer to
aksharas (syllables) in his entire aShTadhyAyi. For instance, in any
grammar rule if he says aN.h, it should be understood that he's
referring to a, i and u.
So, the short form for all Sanskrit vowels would be ach, which stands for
a i u e o ai au
and the short form for all Sanskrit consonants is hal, which stands for
ha ya va ra la ~na ma ~Na Na na jha bha gha Dha dha ja ba ga Da da
Cool, isn't it?
Hence to understand Sanskrit grammar rules that follow, it is
extremely important to thoroughly memorize these 14 sutras and recite
them even when woken up from deep sleep (as our elders used to say).
A small home work: Figure out what the following abbreviations mean:
jash.h
al.h
hal.h
yaN.h
- Sai.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <deejayvai...@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <717165.97017...@web84302.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
?????????? ???: ?????? ????? ???????????: ????? ?????? ??????????? ? ???????
????? ? ???????????????????? ????? ??????????? ????? ???(?)???????????
????????????????? ???????????? ????????????? ?????? ?
Some random details and trivia:
1. The laghusiddhAntakaumudI (by varadarAja) is a short version of the
siddhAntakaumudI (by bhaTToji dIkshhita).
2. The siddhAntakaumudI is not really a commentary on the ashhTAdhyAyI of
pANini.
3. bhaTToji dIkShita also wrote a commentary on the ashhTAdhyAyI called the
shabdakaustubha
4. The sidhhAntakaumudI is an extensive rearrangement of the sUtras from the
ashhTAdhyAyI. This is a major break from pANini's arrangement of the
grammatical apparatus
5. The shivasUtras (a-i-uN.h etc) are composed either by pANini or by a prior
teacher.
6. The beautiful story regarding shiva's Damaru sounds are written by
nandikeshvara in his kAshikA. (pataJNjali discusses the merits and demerits of
specific possible changes to the shivasUtras - for example droppoing the L^i
from the second sUtra. This is discussed as though the sUtras are written by a
human teacher, and not by a divine teacher.)
I agree with Sai, that for anyone learning sa.nskR^ita grammar, memorizing the
shiva sUtras is very useful, and will make a lot of the later study easier.
Best regards,
Dhananjay
P.S. Sai should not have given the extremely difficult "hal.h" in his homework!
If readers find why this is difficult, that counts for extra credit, and if
they can solve the difficulty themselves, that is extra credit of very high
level!
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:27:20 -0400
From: Cynthia Churchill <cynth...@wowway.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <c6545a08.54f4%cynth...@wowway.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
According to Samskrita Bharati?s English-Sanskrit dictionary, an engineer is
abhiyantaa or abhiyantrii (f.).
I looked up the meaning of ?civil engineer? in English: ?An engineer trained
in the design and construction of public works.? Perhaps that will help in
formulating the Sanskrit equivalent...
Cynthia Churchill
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:04:25 -0400
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f4ce5f9f0906091604g285fe5edw717a063218422...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> too much work.>>For grammatical purpose phoneme based roman script is
>> better than syllable based devnAgarI script. This will be evident as you
>> proceed. Of course, this statement should not be considered as something
>> against the devanAgarI, which is very systematic script (but not suitable
>> for grammarians). In any case pANinian tradition, I think was originally an
>> oral tradition.<<
As I understand, Sanskrit grammarians don't worry about scripts.
Devanagari, Sharada, Roman script, whatever -- that does not affect a
grammatical rule.
So I am curious to know why roman script would be better than
devanagari for grammatical purposes.
>> >>You are not consistent in your transliteration scheme. Better follow one
>> >> scheme uniformly. E.g. in 'devIm' you write dIrgha i with 'I' and in
>> >> 'pANiniiya' with double 'ii'. Similarly 'A' vs. 'aa'. It is also a good
>> >> practice to tag the sanskrit strings to seperate them from english strings
>> >> in a bilingual text. You can then display it easily in more than one
>> >> script
>> >> including devanAgarI<<
As a point of information for the readers ... in the Itrans
convention, aa and A are used interchangeably. And within a document,
one need not stick one or the other. Similarly ii or I.
So I can write --
a aa i ii ....
or
a A i I ...
or
a A i ii ...
and so on.
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
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