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Today's Topics:
1. Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday, July 17,
2009 from Suryansu Roy (Dravid, Narayan V. (GRC-DPP0))
2. Re: Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday, July
17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy (Pankaj Gupta)
3. Admin: Recent emails on who can post / appropriate questions,
etc. (Naresh Cuntoor)
4. Administration Request (Pankaj Gupta)
5. Re: Administration Request (Naresh Cuntoor)
6. Re: Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday, July
17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy (Hera Moon)
7. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 6 (Phillip Ernest)
8. Re: L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (Phillip Ernest)
9. Re: Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday, July
17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy (Vimala Sarma)
10. Re: L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (ShreyasPMunshi)
11. Re: L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (Krishnanand Mankikar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:28:19 -0500
From: "Dravid, Narayan V. (GRC-DPP0)" <narayan.v.dra...@nasa.gov>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday, July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
To: "sanskrit@cs.utah.edu" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<3bfbe6d2ed6fd047a345a756b6ea9c1886f2a63...@ndjsscc04.ndc.nasa.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear All:
I am compelled to write this because the subject matter of my previous
message was dragged into this, namely, the meaning of the word 'Arjuna'. I did
refer to whatever sources I had at my hand but did not get any satisfactory
meaning like the ones provided by many of you including the author of the
subject line. I felt very good and educated after reading all those replies.
Then I read the message in the subject line where I was being described as
someone of 'dubious status'. I will ignore that. I did not know that this site
was reserved for discussions among learned scholars of 'Samskritam' only and
that people of my status should not participate. No, I have not been collecting
people's email addresses or any other particulars while reading the messages.
It is unfortunate that such suspicions are raised without any basis. I am sorry
for having to say this but I was genuinely hurt. Thank you for your patience.
With best regards,
Dr. Narayan V. Dravid (USA)
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:54:19 -0500
From: "Pankaj Gupta" <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday, July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <010601ca0720$c12b78c0$fb140...@pankajpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I will add that the mailing list should be doing it's job of hiding the
sender's email addresses. I think it is already the case, but I would love
to know.
The mailing list software does not need to tell every one what the email of
the sender was (that would be a huge intrusion of privacy). That being said,
it is up to the individuals to share their email addresses for collaborative
or social purposes. After all, this should probably be the friendliest of
mailing lists if it is meant to address something as civilized as the
greatest language 'Sanskrit' itself.
I think, the question of 'collecting' email addresses is irrelevant because
you don't get sender's email address. It should be secure to send emails to
this mailing list, as I am pretty sure. If not, it should be easy to
configure it so.
I learned from this thread, and I welcome all such threads. I request the
original poster to continue enriching us with such meaningful questions.
Anyone who is familiar with our Sanskrit texts will know that the method of
teaching in our culture has always been questioning. And asking a good
question by itself is as important as is the answer to that question. That's
why highly regarded seers always praised good questions with praises like
'Sadho Sadho. You have asked a good question indeed'.
Thanks and Regards,
Pankaj
_____
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Dravid, Narayan V. (GRC-DPP0)
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:28 PM
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday,
July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
Dear All:
I am compelled to write this because the subject matter of my
previous message was dragged into this, namely, the meaning of the word
'Arjuna'. I did refer to whatever sources I had at my hand but did not get
any satisfactory meaning like the ones provided by many of you including the
author of the subject line. I felt very good and educated after reading all
those replies. Then I read the message in the subject line where I was being
described as someone of 'dubious status'. I will ignore that. I did not know
that this site was reserved for discussions among learned scholars of
'Samskritam' only and that people of my status should not participate. No, I
have not been collecting people's email addresses or any other particulars
while reading the messages. It is unfortunate that such suspicions are
raised without any basis. I am sorry for having to say this but I was
genuinely hurt. Thank you for your patience.
With best regards,
Dr. Narayan V. Dravid (USA)
-------------- next part --------------
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URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090717/2579546a/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:58:41 -0400
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Admin: Recent emails on who can post / appropriate
questions, etc.
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f4ce5f9f0907171258h59bfd40dv9969407914f23...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear list members,
Some points perhaps bear re-emphasis in light of recent comments on
who can post, who can ask questions, etc.
1. The list membership is diverse -- in terms of geography, level of
expertise, etc.
2. This list is *not* meant for scholars alone. All Sanskrit,
Sanskrit-related posts are welcome.
3. All members are encouraged to contribute to whatever extent they
can. And yes, questions are contributions as well!
4. One should be careful about sharing private information. But let us
not be paranoid about answering legitimate questions (as far as the
list purpose is concerned) .
In particular, Dr. Narayan Dravid, you were absolutely right to post
the question. And I say this both as a list admin and as a list
member.
It is gracious of you to ignore the unnecessary comment about
questioner's status.
To the list:
Please refrain from commenting on this conversation. It is time to move on.
Thank you,
Naresh
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:10:43 -0500
From: "Pankaj Gupta" <pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Administration Request
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <011101ca0723$0b74bc50$fb140...@pankajpc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Can I request admins to look into the possibility of not sending the email
addresses of the posters.
This is a general request, not a part of this thread, so I will rename the
subject to administration request.
Thanks
Pankaj
Pankaj Gupta
212 219 6012 - Office
551 358 0684 - Personal
-----Original Message-----
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Naresh Cuntoor
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:59 PM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: [Sanskrit] Admin: Recent emails on who can post /
appropriatequestions, etc.
Dear list members,
Some points perhaps bear re-emphasis in light of recent comments on
who can post, who can ask questions, etc.
1. The list membership is diverse -- in terms of geography, level of
expertise, etc.
2. This list is *not* meant for scholars alone. All Sanskrit,
Sanskrit-related posts are welcome.
3. All members are encouraged to contribute to whatever extent they
can. And yes, questions are contributions as well!
4. One should be careful about sharing private information. But let us
not be paranoid about answering legitimate questions (as far as the
list purpose is concerned) .
In particular, Dr. Narayan Dravid, you were absolutely right to post
the question. And I say this both as a list admin and as a list
member.
It is gracious of you to ignore the unnecessary comment about
questioner's status.
To the list:
Please refrain from commenting on this conversation. It is time to move on.
Thank you,
Naresh
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:18:49 -0400
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Administration Request
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f4ce5f9f0907171318o22604e10v3cce99cd52aea...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
This is already an option available to all members. In your settings,
you can choose whether or not to reveal your address:
<snip>
Conceal yourself from subscriber list?
When someone views the list membership, your email address is normally
shown (in an obscured fashion to thwart spam harvesters). If you do
not want your email address to show up on this membership roster at
all, select Yes for this option.
</snip>
The link to the settings page is provided in the footer of every mail:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
Naresh
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Pankaj
Gupta<pankaj.gu...@tower-research.com> wrote:
> Can I request admins to look into the possibility of not sending the email
> addresses of the posters.
>
> This is a general request, not a part of this thread, so I will rename the
> subject to administration request.
>
>
> Thanks
> Pankaj
>
>
>
>
> Pankaj Gupta
> 212 219 6012 - Office
> 551 358 0684 - Personal
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
> Behalf Of Naresh Cuntoor
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: Sanskrit Mailing List
> Subject: [Sanskrit] Admin: Recent emails on who can post /
> appropriatequestions, etc.
>
> Dear list members,
>
> Some points perhaps bear re-emphasis in light of recent comments on
> who can post, who can ask questions, etc.
>
> 1. The list membership is diverse -- in terms of geography, level of
> expertise, etc.
>
> 2. This list is *not* meant for scholars alone. All Sanskrit,
> Sanskrit-related posts are welcome.
>
> 3. All members are encouraged to contribute to whatever extent they
> can. And yes, questions are contributions as well!
>
> 4. One should be careful about sharing private information. But let us
> not be paranoid about answering legitimate questions (as far as the
> list purpose is concerned) .
>
> In particular, Dr. Narayan Dravid, you were absolutely right to post
> the question. And I say this both as a list admin and as a list
> member.
> ?It is gracious of you to ignore the unnecessary comment about
> questioner's status.
>
>
> To the list:
> Please refrain from commenting on this conversation. It is time to move on.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Naresh
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:42:38 +0200
From: "Hera Moon" <heram...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday, July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4a60e23b.1c1abc0a.301c.ffffc...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
SAdhuH sAdhuH and amen!
Here are two of my favourite movie clips from "Adi Shankara"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w30JEmV-rQI (decries dogmatic tradition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrGq_yS0B8 (encounters Shiva in disguise of
a chaNDAla)
Thanks for the pointer to this movie some time back!
Hera
_____
Von: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] Im
Auftrag von Pankaj Gupta
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Juli 2009 22:54
An: 'Sanskrit Mailing List'
Betreff: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday,July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
I will add that the mailing list should be doing it's job of hiding the
sender's email addresses. I think it is already the case, but I would love
to know.
The mailing list software does not need to tell every one what the email of
the sender was (that would be a huge intrusion of privacy). That being said,
it is up to the individuals to share their email addresses for collaborative
or social purposes. After all, this should probably be the friendliest of
mailing lists if it is meant to address something as civilized as the
greatest language 'Sanskrit' itself.
I think, the question of 'collecting' email addresses is irrelevant because
you don't get sender's email address. It should be secure to send emails to
this mailing list, as I am pretty sure. If not, it should be easy to
configure it so.
I learned from this thread, and I welcome all such threads. I request the
original poster to continue enriching us with such meaningful questions.
Anyone who is familiar with our Sanskrit texts will know that the method of
teaching in our culture has always been questioning. And asking a good
question by itself is as important as is the answer to that question. That's
why highly regarded seers always praised good questions with praises like
'Sadho Sadho. You have asked a good question indeed'.
Thanks and Regards,
Pankaj
_____
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Dravid, Narayan V. (GRC-DPP0)
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:28 PM
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday,
July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
Dear All:
I am compelled to write this because the subject matter of my
previous message was dragged into this, namely, the meaning of the word
'Arjuna'. I did refer to whatever sources I had at my hand but did not get
any satisfactory meaning like the ones provided by many of you including the
author of the subject line. I felt very good and educated after reading all
those replies. Then I read the message in the subject line where I was being
described as someone of 'dubious status'. I will ignore that. I did not know
that this site was reserved for discussions among learned scholars of
'Samskritam' only and that people of my status should not participate. No, I
have not been collecting people's email addresses or any other particulars
while reading the messages. It is unfortunate that such suspicions are
raised without any basis. I am sorry for having to say this but I was
genuinely hurt. Thank you for your patience.
With best regards,
Dr. Narayan V. Dravid (USA)
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:24:01 +0900
From: Phillip Ernest <phillip.ern...@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 6
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <20090718122401.10uimh4qgw0sw...@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Quoting vararo devaraj <ravivar...@gmail.com>:
>> ???(al) White
Just beautiful, to see Tamil script in an email. Such a beautiful
script, like all those of the south.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:29:45 +0900
From: Phillip Ernest <phillip.ern...@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <20090718122945.0qqi2wq4g0kow...@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Quoting Jay Vaidya <deejayvai...@yahoo.com>:
> (Just to clarify: While speaking in marAThI, it is most correct for
> me to say "sauMskrut" - saying "saMskRta" is incorrect. But the
> opposite is the case while trying to read saMskRta aloud.)
Yes, if nothing else such vernacular pronunciations wreck the metre,
as when one reads Virgil or Horace pronouncing the Latin as Italian.
paus punyala ala
he re he re pavasa
P
puNyapattane
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:04:30 +1000
From: "Vimala Sarma" <vsa...@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday, July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<!&!aaaaaaaaaaayaaaaaaaaahu8naacsvtkqhz0eaeir8ncgaaaeaaaaox6xpdby3xajmkd+w5zyiebaaaaa...@bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks but if you see the full movie, it will be clear that Sankara is
trying to preserve the Vedic tradition against the growing popularity in
his day of heterodox ideas such as Buddhist and Jain beliefs.
Vimala
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Hera Moon
Sent: Saturday, 18 July 2009 6:43 AM
To: 'Sanskrit Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday,
July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
SAdhuH sAdhuH and amen!
Here are two of my favourite movie clips from "Adi Shankara"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w30JEmV-rQI (decries dogmatic tradition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrGq_yS0B8 (encounters Shiva in disguise of
a chaNDAla)
Thanks for the pointer to this movie some time back!
Hera
_____
Von: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] Im
Auftrag von Pankaj Gupta
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Juli 2009 22:54
An: 'Sanskrit Mailing List'
Betreff: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4,
Friday,July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
I will add that the mailing list should be doing it's job of hiding the
sender's email addresses. I think it is already the case, but I would love
to know.
The mailing list software does not need to tell every one what the email of
the sender was (that would be a huge intrusion of privacy). That being said,
it is up to the individuals to share their email addresses for collaborative
or social purposes. After all, this should probably be the friendliest of
mailing lists if it is meant to address something as civilized as the
greatest language 'Sanskrit' itself.
I think, the question of 'collecting' email addresses is irrelevant because
you don't get sender's email address. It should be secure to send emails to
this mailing list, as I am pretty sure. If not, it should be easy to
configure it so.
I learned from this thread, and I welcome all such threads. I request the
original poster to continue enriching us with such meaningful questions.
Anyone who is familiar with our Sanskrit texts will know that the method of
teaching in our culture has always been questioning. And asking a good
question by itself is as important as is the answer to that question. That's
why highly regarded seers always praised good questions with praises like
'Sadho Sadho. You have asked a good question indeed'.
Thanks and Regards,
Pankaj
_____
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Dravid, Narayan V. (GRC-DPP0)
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:28 PM
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8, Message 4, Friday,
July 17, 2009 from Suryansu Roy
Dear All:
I am compelled to write this because the subject matter of my
previous message was dragged into this, namely, the meaning of the word
'Arjuna'. I did refer to whatever sources I had at my hand but did not get
any satisfactory meaning like the ones provided by many of you including the
author of the subject line. I felt very good and educated after reading all
those replies. Then I read the message in the subject line where I was being
described as someone of 'dubious status'. I will ignore that. I did not know
that this site was reserved for discussions among learned scholars of
'Samskritam' only and that people of my status should not participate. No, I
have not been collecting people's email addresses or any other particulars
while reading the messages. It is unfortunate that such suspicions are
raised without any basis. I am sorry for having to say this but I was
genuinely hurt. Thank you for your patience.
With best regards,
Dr. Narayan V. Dravid (USA)
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: 18 Jul 2009 06:07:01 -0000
From: "ShreyasPMunshi" <shreyasmun...@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: <phillip.ern...@utoronto.ca>
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<1247887719.s.3957.61234.f5mail-147-103.rediffmail.com.1247897221.55...@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Phillip Ernest and Scholars,
It seems one must write and pronounce "saMskRta" only when one is writing and
reading Sanskrit. In all regonal languages it would be 'sanskrit' because that
is the state and stage of our spoken languges and the phonetic transcription
must reprsent just the spoken sounds. We refer to India as 'Bharat' not
'Bharata'; Arjun, Dinesh,Satish, Ramesh, Aahaar, Vihaar,aachaar, vichaar and
hundred others are examples. Agreed that if one is speaking Sanskrit the
correct grammatical declensions must be used because Sanskrit functions that
way. Further, all the concerned departments in all the Universities in India
write and say "Department of Sanskrit', nowhere "saMskRta"; even the language
is listed as 'Sanskrit!
And while talking abut languages, I humbly submit that it is not proper to call
Marathi a 'vernacular' language. No Sir, it is no longer acceptable.It is a
full-fledged respectable regional language of India. Phillip, it's the British
who labelled all Indian languages as 'vernacular' in comparison with English
which, according to them was 'The Language'. It is time. at least, now that all
educated people all over the world recognise and accept that all regional
laguages of India are of equal (respect demanding) status, as my teacher has
taught me...Shreyas
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 08:58:39 +0530 wrote
>Quoting Jay Vaidya :
>
>> (Just to clarify: While speaking in marAThI, it is most correct for ??
>> me to say "sauMskrut" - saying "saMskRta" is incorrect. But the ??
>> opposite is the case while trying to read saMskRta aloud.)
>
>Yes, if nothing else such vernacular pronunciations wreck the metre, ??
>as when one reads Virgil or Horace pronouncing the Latin as Italian.
>
>paus punyala ala
>he re he re pavasa
>
>P
>puNyapattane
>_______________________________________________
>To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
>http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
>and follow instructions.
>
____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
shreyasmun...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:22:25 +0530
From: Krishnanand Mankikar <kdmanki...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<2b2948ae0907200052l4c5c878cy78bbdcdecb3b4...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Dr. Ray,
Very valid observation.
Regards
Mankikar
2009/7/17 Suryansu Ray <suryansu...@yahoo.com>
>
> To all who get Sanskrit questions:
>
> Gentlemen and Ladies,
>
> Suddenly a large number of questions on Sanskrit are being asked from
> people of dubious status. I feel that this is a convenient ploy to get your
> email address and other particulars. Before replying to these Sanskrit
> queries, please verify from where they are coming. If they are students of
> Sanskrit of any university, they can easily get the answers from their
> professors or from their well-equipped libraries. To get the meaning of
> arjuna, they need not come to you through the Internet, when they can
> consult Monier-Williams and Apte.
>
> With best wishes,
> Dr. Suryansu Ray.
> --- On *Fri, 7/17/09, Vasuvaj . <vasu...@hotmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Vasuvaj . <vasu...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
> To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu, nsvnarasi...@gmail.com, deejayvai...@yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 10:36 AM
>
>
>
> Namaste.
>
> Due to various reasons , I couldn't send this mail earlier.
> Sorry for the delay.
> Hope all of you can read the writing in Devanagarii in the attached PDF
> file.
>
> If not the 'crude' Roman transliteration is below
>
> Hakaaram panchamairyuktam anta:sthaabhishca samyutam .
>
> Aurasyam tam vijaaniiyaat kaNthyamaahurasamyutam ..
>
>
>
> Paaniniiyashikshaa 16
>
>
>
> Panchama = all the fifth consonants of each vargah
> Anta:sthah= 'yaN' pratyaaharah ie ya, va ra, la,
>
>
>
> The rule clearly states that if 'hakara' is followed by any of the above
> alphabets, then it should NOT be pronounced as 'KANTHYAM" but pronounced as
> 'AURASYAM'
>
> "akuhavisarjaniiyanaam kanthah".... by this we know that 'hakarah' is
> pronounced from the 'kantha'
>
> But how do we pronounce 'aurasya' hakaarah. None of the present day
> scholars know it. It is lost. If any of the readers in this list, know or
> know any scholar who knows how to pronounce 'Aurasya hakarah', do inform .
>
> As this method of pronunciation is lost,we have to rely on the Vedic
> scholars who learnt it orally from their acharyas.
>
> As per the oral tradition, brahma is pronounced as bramha, prahlada is
> pronounced as pralhadah, madhyahne is pronounced as madhyanhe and so on.
>
> But if we apply the same logic, it is impossible to pronounce 'hyah' as
> 'yhah' which means 'yesterday'.
>
> Bhavadiiyah,
> Vasuvaj
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:38:26
> -0700
> From: deejayvai...@yahoo.com
> To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
>
> svasti venkatesha,
>
> I would go with Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya's opinion, with some slight
> modification as per shrI kamalesha pAThaka's reply to you.
>
> (The modification being that disciples of horourable traditions can
> pronounce words as per their tradition. Their tradition each creates
> grammatical variations that are applicable only within their own traditional
> group.)
>
> Nothing in the pANinIya shikShA or sUtras suggests that the order of 'h'
> and the other consonant cn be interchanged. Indeed pANinIya sUtras suggest
> quite clearly that 'h' is pronounced before.
> The sUtras mentioned by shrI suma in reply to you are:
> 8.3.26 he mapare vA |
> 8.3.27 napare naH |
> In both cases the anusvAra before the 'hm' or 'hn' is modified. If the 'h'
> was not pronounced before the m, n in these combinations, the anusvAra would
> be modified automatically by "8.4.58 anusvArasya yayi parasavarNaH" and
> these two sUtras become superfluous. Because we know that pANini does not
> make superfluous sUtras, we know that the 'h' is pronounced before the 'm'
> and 'n' respectively.
>
> shrI. suma's teacher is quite right in insisting the correct pronunciation
> of the -mhm- and -nhn- combinations that are the subject of these sUtras.
> However, note that both of these sUtras are optional rules signalled by the
> "vA"
> kiM + hmalayati = (Option 1) kiM hmalayati ; (Option 2) kimhmalayati
> kiM + hnute = (Option 1) kiM hnute ; (Option 2) kimhnute
> (So I hope shrI suma's teacher allows both the anusvAra-h-m and the -m-h-m-
> pronunciations.)
>
> In any case for the original words 'hmalayati' or 'hnute' the order is that
> 'h' is pronounced before the nasal consonant.
>
> Now what may be the reason as to why some regional accents of saMskRta
> switch the order of -hm- may have been reversed. By the time of the use of
> prAkRta languages such as pAlI, the combination -mh- -Nh- etc., have become
> common. e.g., the words tumhe, taNhA etc. (These combinations are never seen
> in saMskRta.) In the spoken standard version of the modern language Marathi,
> the combination -hm- is always converted to -mh-, etc., (e.g., brammha,
> Annhik, AvvhAn, etc., instead of the saMskRta words brahma, Ahnika, AhvAna,
> etc.). This is possibly a further development of this flow of phonetic
> change from the prAkRta languages. (I think, the same flow is true regarding
> kannaDa, but I am not sure.)
>
> Our native (regional) languages strongly affect our saMskRta accents. Thus
> with a respectful bow towards our rich and honourable mother-tongues, I
> suggest that these regional language specialities are the reason why some
> speakers switch the order of -hm- to -mh-, as you note.
>
> vinIto
> dhana~jjayaH
>
>
>
> 8.4.46
>
> --- On *Thu, 6/11/09, sanskrit-requ...@cs.utah.edu <
> sanskrit-requ...@cs.utah.edu>* wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:05:35 +0530
> From: Venkatesh
> <nsvnarasi...@gmail.com<http:///mc/compose?to=nsvnarasi...@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
> To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu <http:///mc/compose?to=sansk...@cs.utah.edu>
> Message-ID:
>
> <4c87afae0906100135y72fd5a5k5cfe4ecb68aed...@mail.gmail.com<http:///mc/compose?to=4c87afae0906100135y72fd5a5k5cfe4ecb68aed...@mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello all,
>
> It's heartening to see a list where I can post my long standing question.
> Is
> there any grammatical/shiksha/varNakrama/other dictate for swapped
> pronounciation of 'h' and 'anunasika' in the words like brahmana, vahni,
> ahna, etc.
> We have many north Indian scholars who pronounce them as they are written.
> At least on eminent scholar in Bangalore, Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, very
> authentically says that the swapped pronounciation is a fallacy. I cannot
> believe that the entire gamut of Vedic scholars (particularly in southern
> India ), who preserve & revere Vedas more than their own life, could be
> that
> horribly wrong.
> A few who tried to answer the question quote, 'hakArannaNamaparanAsikAyaM"
> fom taittirya prAtisakhya (21.14). The sUtra however, according to
> tribhAShyaratna, vaidikAbharaNa, and padakramasAdana (of mAhiSheya)
> commentaries, only introduces an anunAsika 'Ha'kAra after the Ha-kAra when
> the later is followed by na/ma/Na.
>
> Could some one kindly through more light on the reason for varied
> prnounciation ?
>
> Many regards
> Venkatesh
>
>
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