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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 - sandhi 4
(Sai Susarla)
2. Re: [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 - sandhi 4
Upadeshe ac anunasika it - reg (hn bhat)
3. Re: [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 - sandhi 4
Further clarifications on UPadehsa (hn bhat)
4. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (J. K. Mohana Rao)
5. A requesy, please (Sankara Krishnan)
6. Re: Devanagari and Transliterations (rahul vedi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:35:38 +0530
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 -
sandhi 4
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4b2a0272.3090...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Regarding whether the 'a' in laN is anunaasika a-varNa or not, it makes
sense to be pronounced as an anunaasika as it's otherwise difficult to
pronounce it without the nasal sound. Also, I thought interpreting
'anunaasika' as naasikaa-varNena anusR^itaH ach varNaH as making sense,
but you know better. Regarding whether you need a real guru or
commentary to know that the 'a' varNa is anunaasika, that seems to be a
less satisfying explanation to me. I was expecting paaNini to make his
sUtras self-contained, and not leave it to someone else to explain how
they are to be interpreted. That's goes against the elegant engineering
demonstrated in paaNini sUtras. In other occasions, if he was so
meticulous to introduce paribhAShaa sUtras to help readers interpret his
sUtra texts, why would he loosen up his exposition here?
I am also confused about your explanation of how
a + R^i becomes 'ar' instead of a + 'r'. From the sUtra text, it seems
that aN varNa becomes ra paraH in the R^i-varNa's sthaana.
which means, the R^i gets replaced by 'r' as opposed to a+R^i being
replaced by 'ar'. Though the final effect is the same, there's no
mention of 'ar' or 'al' in the sUtra or its explanation in LSK. Can you
please clarify?
Also, how come uH is the ShaShTii vibhakti of both R^i and L^i? I
couldn't understand that too. And what is the saavarNyam you're talking
about and how does it apply here?
- Sai.
hn bhat wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:sai.susa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The next paaNini sUtra in LSK is
>
> ?????? ??? ???????? ??? (is this a paribhASha or saMj~naa suutra???)
>
> upadeshe 'anu-naasikaH' ach it (syaat) |
> In upadesha, i.e., in the maaheshvara sUtraaNi, the ach varNa with
> a naasikaa varNa following it (anu) is to be interpreted as an
> 'it' saMj~naa.
>
> The above Sutra is a ?????? ????? like ????????? which is the next in order
> of Ashtadhyayi. Well, this part needs much care and attention in
> explaining. This is taken only as to introduce the "?-??????????" which
> is needed to interpret the following Sutra: "???? ????"? which in turn
> is needed to explain the next example of the Sutra in question "??? ????".
>
> Having said this much to clarify the context, the Sutra simply means
> in the Sutra-s, (Upadeshe), ac (the vowel) which is nasal (Anunasika)
> in pronunciation. It has already been said in earlier occasion, that
> vowels are anunaasika-s and niranunaasika-s. What is Anunasika? It is
> explained as "????????????? ?????????" = ?????????????? ???????????? ????? =
> ????????? which means any letter pronounced with mouth in its
> articulatory postition using nasal cavity is called Anunaasika. Note,
> it is not as you have explained, because there is a nasal consonant
> "N" after the vowel.
> as the" N" itself is iT, it is not considered in the Maheshvara Sutra-s.
>
> How to know which vowel is Anunasika? Only you have to know it from a
> teacher (in the absence of which, from the commentary). This has been
> said, "???????????????????? ?????????". (I am not sure whether this has
> not already come earlier in the Samjna prakaraNa).
>
> Now, coming to the point in question, about the "a" in the middle of
> the Sutra "???" it is "???" whereas in all the other Sutra-s, the "a"
> following the consonants in the Maheshvara Sutra-s are augmented for
> the convenience of pronunciation of the consonants as ha, ya, va etc.
> ONLY in LAN sutra the "a" is affixed as "???" among them.
>
> Now, create a the "pratyahara" begnning with [???]?[??] ??[?] ra[T] and
> l{A} = = ? .i.e the consonants falling between r a)[T] and l+a
> formed with the "a" designated as it with "ra". Thus the first word
> "ra" in the compound ra-para in next Sutra : "???? ?-???" is this
> pratyahara and means followed by r and l. This qualified the ??? which
> substitutes the vowel ?. I hope you might have already explained how
> ? and ?? are ?????-s. Just I will draw the attention to the specific
> Vartika, in the absence of which it is not possible to consider these
> two different vowels cognates : "?-??-???????????? ????????? ????????". Now
> everything follows in the order
> but for the explanation of the example where the sutra is applied.
>
> ????? + ?????? = ????? + ?? + ????? = ???????????? (kR^iShNasya samR^iddhiH
> iti
> arthaH)
> ?? + ????? = ?? + ?? + ???? = ????????
>
> Now, coming to the example of ???-????? in order, next vowels after a+i,
> and a+u are ?+? and ? + ??. According to the rule of ???-?????, the ???
> should be substituted in the place of both the vowels. The nearest ???
> is "?" which would replace both in the first instance followed by "??"
> and in the second "??" according to this newly introduced
> Paribhasha-Sutra i.e. ??? and ??? will replace both ?+? and ? + ?? in the
> examples as
>
> ????? + ?????? >> ?????? [?] +[?] ??? + ????? = ????????????
> ?? + ????? = ???[?] + [?]??? + ???? = ????????
>
> That is all for the time being.
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
> EFEO,
> PONDICHERRY
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
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>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:47:08 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 -
sandhi 4 Upadeshe ac anunasika it - reg
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310912170217w6bf02ffau6ad0c5c08498d...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the last sUtra I discussed in my previous lesson:
>
> ?????????? ??????? ???????
>
> I believe the word samaanaam is ShaShThi vibhakti bahuvachana rUpam of
> samaH = equal.
> samasya samayoH samaanaam |
> In that case, what bhaTTa mahodaya explained is,
> samaanaaM anudeshaH yathaa-sankhyaM (syaat).
> ityukte
> sama-sankhyakaanaam
> "A rule containing Equal-numbered enumerations will apply as a number-wise
> correspondence"
> echaH (e o ai au) -> (ay av aay aav) respectively.
>
> The previous vidhi sUtra said "achi pare echaH ay av aay aav syuH"
> ech varNas (e o ai au) when followed by ach become ay, av, aay and aav
> respectively.
>
> The next sUtra
> *?????? ?? ????????*
> says, "??????? ???????? ??? ?????? (i.e., ??? ???) ?????? "
> Which varNa will become a vaantaH? the ??? ??????? ?????????? ????? (i.e.,
> ? ?)
>
> This basically says, in the presence of ya pratyayas, only ? and ? will
> change to ??? and ???
> e and ai will change to ay and aay in the presence of ach, and not in the
> presence of ya pratyayaaH.
>
>
> See the compactness in the expression of the sUtra! I love it!
> No superfluous usage of words/letters. That's why it's a sUtra - extremely
> dense statement -
> with not a single letter uttered unnecessarily.
> I wish we moderns could talk so efficiently instead of blabbering so much
> to express so little.
> I'm trying to understand and explain paaNini sUtras as far as possible
> without need to state their LSK expansions.
> My intent is not only to share with you knowledge of Sanskrit grammar, but
> also
> to help you appreciate the beauty of expression in paaNini sUtras
> firsthand.
>
>
> Examples:
> ?? + ?? = ?? + ??? + ??? = ??????
> ?? + ?? = ?? + ??? + ??? = ???????
>
> [What are the 'ya pratyayaaH'?]
> Now for guNa sandhi, a heavily used sandhi in Sanskrit:
>
> First the saMj~naa sUtraM that defines what a 'guNa' means:
> ????? ????
> The next paaNini sUtra in LSK is
> *?????? ??? ???????? ??? *(is this a paribhASha or saMj~naa suutra???)
> upadeshe 'anu-naasikaH' ach it (syaat) |
> In upadesha, i.e., in the maaheshvara sUtraaNi, the ach varNa with a
> naasikaa varNa following it (anu) is to be interpreted as an 'it' saMj~naa.
>
> I have pointed out in my last post, what is ????????. Now, I will turn
to?????.
*
*
*It is explained in this ?????? ---*
*
*
*????-?????-???????-?????-???????????????*
*???????????????? ??????? ????????????? *
*
*
*It does not only refer to Maheshvara Sutra, but all the accessories to the
Paninian Grammar which Panini had used in the formation of his rules and
within the scope of application of the rules.*
*
*
*These can be listed as follows: *
*
*
*1. Dhaatu = roots of verbs, refering to the list of roots with meaning
called properly as ????-???. *
There are many lists prior to Panini and posterior to him also which collect
verbs used in Sanskrit Language. They have been commented by various
scholars also, of whom, the one ???????????????? is popular and generally
accepted by Bhattoji and his followers.
2. Suutra-s refers to the aphorisms in ??????????? of Panini.
3. GaNa refers to the list of words to be taken with the SUtra-s that relate
to a group of words as a whole. This listing is called ????? which is an
accessary to the Sutra-s themselves. These are separately given in the
Vritti-s like Kashika in the Sutra-s themselves. But there is one list
prepared and commented by Vardhamana which is called ????????????.
4. UNaadi is another collection of Sutra-s, by Shakatayana another
grammarian contemporary or prior to Panini. This Shakatayana maintains that
all the nominal stems could be derived from the verbal roots. Unadi set of
rules and their derivates are accepted in general by Panini, in his rule
"?????? ??????". There are two versions a shorter one with Five Chapters and
larger one with Ten chapters. In ??????????????? Dikshit used Five
Chaptered.
5. Vaakya means the sentences suggesting modifications to the rules of
Panini. They are attributed to Vararuci as the following benedictory verse
to the Trio of muni-s in grammar states:
????????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ? ??????? ????????? ?*???????????
??????????* ??
According to some other sources, they are called ???????-s which are
attributed ????????. Some hold these two as identical and some as different
writers. Anyhow, these are intended to amend the rules of Panini, which are
thoroughly consulted and validated and in deserving cases, dismissed after a
lengthy discussion. These are called Vakya-s also.
6. Lin~Nggaanushaasana - is also one of the accessories, where the rules
collect those prescribed in the Ashtadhyayi and additionals ones governing
the gender of words derived or underived (through grammar).
.6-7-8 Aagama, pratyaya, and Adesha-s are wellknown in the Paninian grammar.
Agama is augmentation, in addition to the one form existing and suffixes and
substitutions prescribed in the Ashtadhyayi and Vartika-s.
Hope this makes a clear picture of Upadesha whenever this term is used in
the Sutra-s or in any context in the discussion of grammar.
With regards
--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:45:17 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [l2] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - part 9 -
sandhi 4 Further clarifications on UPadehsa
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310912170515y2316c855n662c2a69b9406...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thank you for getting back with your right question.
Regarding whether you need a real guru or commentary to know that the 'a'
> varNa is anunaasika, that seems to be a less satisfying explanation to me. I
> was expecting paaNini to make his sUtras self-contained, and not leave it to
> someone else to explain how they are to be interpreted. That's goes against
> the elegant engineering demonstrated in paaNini sUtras. In other occasions,
> if he was so meticulous to introduce paribhAShaa sUtras to help readers
> interpret his sUtra texts, why would he loosen up his exposition here?
I have given the traditional explanation for the "RA" pratyahara in the
Sutra and the formation of it. Under "updeshe 'nunasika it" this is found in
??????????????? also. The one maxim I quoted is a Paribhasha by Vyadi,
(No.1) who digested the Paninian Sysem of grammar before Paanjali wrote his
Mahabhashya. There are a lot of things implied by the accentuation system in
the Sutra, as they are considered like the Veda-s and VyakaraNa is Vedanga.
Many of the interpretations depend on these accentuation system. As the one
"???????????????" Like the dhatu-patha, comprised of all the three accents,
??????, ???????? and ?????? on which Panini, classifies aadmanepada and
parasmaipada as "??????????? ??????????" which rules Aatmanepada suffixes to
those having the accented vowels as ??? "?????????? ?????????????
?????????" and those with ?????? accented vowel ??? only when the fruit of
the action is intended (to be enjoyed by) the agent of the action. And so
on. This is the traditional explanation for the upadeshe ' c anunaasika
Sutra. It is not the shortcoming of Panini, if we lost the tradition of
learning from the Guru-s in the tradition. He wrote for the teachers a
manual of his time to aide them which was successful not only at that time,
it is so even today, but for the lost tradition.. The rest is left to you
how to take it or not. It is still taught in the order of Ashtadhyayi in
certain traditional centers of learning in North India, for example, Kangadi
Gurukula (now University) and certain other centers. With the popularity of
Siddhantakaumudi, the traditional way of learning was completely became
obsolete.
I am also confused about your explanation of how
> a + R^i becomes 'ar' instead of a + 'r'. From the sUtra text, it seems that
> aN varNa becomes ra paraH in the R^i-varNa's sthaana.
> which means, the R^i gets replaced by 'r' as opposed to a+R^i being
> replaced by 'ar'. Though the final effect is the same, there's no mention of
> 'ar' or 'al' in the sUtra or its explanation in LSK. Can you please clarify?
>
Then, coming to the second pair of form of examples of GuNa-Sandhi explained
it is simple. I could not understand your question fully, I am afraid. The
rule for GuNa-sandhi specifically mentions the substitution takes place in
the place of ????? and ??. So in these examples also, the pUrva is a and ??
is ?/??. So the nearest substitution among the GuNa-s is a, which becomes
??? and ??? would naturally occupy the place of both. There is no other
alternative. This is because, the Sutra "??? ????" and the others coming the
??????????? "??? ??????????" 6\.1\.84) which has made the Sutra to mean ?
??????? ??? ??? ?????????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? in the Vritti. as quoted
by you. The same applies in the case of these two vowels also as in the
prior ones ramesha and gangoodakam. Only the difference is that, there the
GunNa which was suitable by similar to both in articulation were available
and here is there is only one one GuNa "a" which is only similar to the
pUrva in this case, after kriShN-a, and tav+a. That is why the whole
exercise of making the substitution compatible with both, with the newly
introduced Sutra. By sthana, both are not similar, but but by Prayatna both
are svara-s and similar. Thats the only similarity. The Sutra- ???? ???? is
not meant for this substitution only, but wherever the ? is substituted by
any of the vowels in AN pratyahaara. I can give more examples of i and u
substituting ? . "?? ??? ?????? which substitutes the vowel "i" to long ?
in the roots, ?? ???????? = becomes ????? in the present tense. "???
??????????????" the same ? gets substituted by short "u" when its followed
by a labial consont. ?? - kridanta of this ???? - ending with "r" declined
as ???, ????, ???? . etc.
Also, how come uH is the ShaShTii vibhakti of both R^i and L^i? I couldn't
> understand that too. And what is the saavarNyam you're talking about and how
> does it apply here?
>
It is because of this ???????? that ? takes the thirty varieties, 18 of its
own and 12 of the ?? (because it doesn't have ????? with anunasika and
ananunasika varieties) as quoted by you. There is a Vartika, prescribing
???????? : "?-??-??????? ???? ????????? ???????"
under the Sutra for ?????????. The same applies in the present case also.
When the rule says '??????? ???????? ??????????" the ??? takes all its
cognates (?????), because of the Vartika, and this ParibhaSha, together,
makes wherever any of the ??? is used, it should take its savarNa-s, here in
this case, the letter ? in the ????? ??????? in the sUtra "?? ???
????" takes among its ????? ??-??? with its 12 varieties of hrasva and
pluta. Hope this makes clear how the Sutra takes both the vowels.
With regards
--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:59:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <jkm...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <799786.92913...@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
By mistake, I forgot to send this mail in Unicode (UTF8) encoding. So
you must have seen ???? in place of devanagarii script everywhere.
I am resending this lesson correctly. I hope it works this time.
- Sai.
In the last sUtra I discussed in my previous lesson:
?????????? ??????? ???????
?
Sai gAru and others, I still see only question marks.? I did all that you
mentioned in your previous message.?My browser?is enabled for Unicode.?I
request friends to send their messages in ITRANS.? I mentioned my problem a few
months ago?in an earlier message also.? The moderator chose not to publish it.?
If this trend continues, people like me may have to end our association with
the Sanskrit Digest, which is nearly twenty years long.? I hope the moderator
kindly publishes this and suggests a solutio
?
Regards!? -? J K? Mohana? Rao
?
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:19:36 +0530 (IST)
From: Sankara Krishnan <krishnan_sank...@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: [Sanskrit] A requesy, please
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <977783.73602...@web8804.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
My friend is planning a 'swagata patrike' in connection with his revered
Aacaarya??
?
He is wondering what of the following is to be employed (a) 'svaagatam bhavate
sri aacaarya' or (b) ?svaagatam te sri aacaarya'? ?
?
He feels that (a) is to be used. But I?mentioned that I have come across
announcements in local newspapers with the text 'svaagatam te jagatguru'?when
Sri?Sankaraachaarya graced our area.
?
Any guidance?on which to be employed?
?
Thanks
?
S. Krishnan-----------------
The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
http://in.yahoo.com/
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:23:27 -0800 (PST)
From: rahul vedi <rahul_v...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <760257.79091...@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
panditaaH
namo namaH
?
I have been having trouble with the non-ASCII fonts on this list.
I had posted my problem sometime back but it fizzled out...
?
I have not been able to read the UTF-8 aur other devnagari and/or
transliterated fonts.
It all shows as "question marks" ???
?
I have my computer settings and fonts installation correct as I do send and
recieve mail text in UTF-8 and Baraha and also sanskrit99/sanskrit2000 fonts.
?
May I suggest that till such time that this issue remains unresolved on this
list, we all should use Itrans (Itranslator code) such as a aa i ii u uu etc.
I am sure that all memebers in the list are familiar with this method.
?
bhavadiiyaH
raahula (Rahul)
?
PS: the fonts problem is making me lose the wonderful posting on LSK by sri Sai.
I hope to catch should the fonts issue be handled in a manner that we can all
"read" the contents.
--- On Wed, 12/16/09, sanskrit-requ...@cs.utah.edu
<sanskrit-requ...@cs.utah.edu> From: jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com>? wrote
Subject: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations:
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:40:14 -0500
From: jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
??? <dca0fef30912121540w42b61e51l8ddefc785f317...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The google system does not support devanagari in Discussion Pages. For those
of us in the West, DN script appears as ??????????? only, even when Mangal
or Sans2003 is installed in out fontFile.
???The same applies to some characters in iTrans, or IAST notation.
???The only transliteration that is universally accessible is the
Harvard-Kyoto system:
???a A i I u U r R, &c.
???It would be most helpful if you would advise members to use this method,
so that their queries and comments can be more easily read.
x?x
jd
--
santoSaH paramo lAbhaH satsaGgaH paramA gatiH |
vicAraH paramaM jJAnaM zamo hi paramaM sukham ||
??????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ?????
?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??????
Contentment is the highest gain, Good Company the highest course,
Enquiry the highest wisdom, and Peace the highest enjoyment.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Yoga Vasishtha
Selections from an ongoing translation? can be had at:
http://groups.google.com/group/yoga-vasishtha
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:29:54 +0530 (IST)
From: Phillip Ernest <yadbhavisy...@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <692668.7040...@web95103.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
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--- ???, 13/12/09 ??, jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com> ?? ????:
> ??????: jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com>
> ????: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
> To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> ??????: ??????, 13 ??????, 2009, 5:10 AM
> The google system does not support
> devanagari in Discussion Pages. For those of us in the West,
> DN script appears as ??????????? only, even when Mangal or
> Sans2003 is installed in out fontFile.
It's not just a western problem, actually.? But I've found that Gmail is
completely reliable for devanagari originating from anywhere: at least it
presents it properly to me and my other Gmail correspondents.? In Google
groups, I see some devanagari passages (and passages in other non-roman
scripts), while others get turned to garbage.
? ? The same
> applies to some characters in iTrans, or IAST
> notation.
>? ? The only transliteration that is universally
> accessible is the Harvard-Kyoto system:? ? a A
> i I u U r R, &c.? ? It would be most
> helpful if you would advise members to use this method, so
> that their queries and comments can be more easily
> read.
The problem with Harvard-Kyoto is that it is actually not more universal than
any script, in the sense that, at least in my experience, very few Indian
sanskritists read it fluently -- I know I can't.? For me and many, in the end,
calligraphic aesthetics, and the authenticity of lifelong experience, wins out
over numbers: one prefers to write in a script that looks like Sanskrit, even
if it means that a large percentage of correspondents will be left with
question marks.
? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
http://in.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:21:24 -0500
From: Upendra Watwe <upendra.wa...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
??? <b39355ca0912122121k3a5f58b2j43fb9ea313f35...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello Jiva Das,
As far as my knowledge goes, google is the best way ahead for all of us who
are limited by keyboards designed for the roman alphabet.
You can continue to write using the same letters you are used to and google
will render the text correctly in devnagari.
Now if the advocacy of not using Google arises from not knowing devnagari
script, then I would be gladly willing to share my time to help you
understand the pronounciations of each devnagari letter(consonants , vowels
and combinations).
If its a confusion of what combination of roman characters bring about a
proper representation of each akshar- then I will definitely help.
Devnagari script is by far the ONLY script in the world that can truely
represent nearly all possible pronunciations? with no ambiguities.
Each letter is always represented by the same sound, irrespective of its
position with the word w.r.t other letters.
For those who are interested, I would like to remind that the word for a
letter/ character in devnagari is- Akshar- something that does not decay/
change/ degrade.
Should we still insist on exchange of such great? knowledge by using a ill
equipped script as roman ?
This insistence on using the poorly equipped roman alphabet for writing and
discussing sanskrit reminds me of the story of the king who asked the
athletes from visiting teams to run using crutches because his team was
physically challenged !!!
I also know that this will suddenly cause a big furore about me raising such
an issue.
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:40 PM, jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The google system does not support devanagari in Discussion Pages. For
> those of us in the West, DN script appears as ??????????? only, even when
> Mangal or Sans2003 is installed in out fontFile.
>? ? The same applies to some characters in iTrans, or IAST notation.
>? ? The only transliteration that is universally accessible is the
> Harvard-Kyoto system:
>? ? a A i I u U r R, &c.
>? ? It would be most helpful if you would advise members to use this method,
> so that their queries and comments can be more easily read.
>
> x?x
>? jd
>
> --
> santoSaH paramo lAbhaH satsaGgaH paramA gatiH |
> vicAraH paramaM jJAnaM zamo hi paramaM sukham ||
>
> ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ?????
> ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??????
> Contentment is the highest gain, Good Company the highest course,
> Enquiry the highest wisdom, and Peace the highest enjoyment.
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???-- Yoga Vasishtha --
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:35:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Karthikeyan Madathil <kmadat...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <101301.39038...@web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
ITRANS is 100% ASCII, so it should be readable on any email client. The problem
with Harvard Kyoto is that it looks unnatural to most non-academic Indians. I
believe one of the goals of ITRANS was to remedy that.
________________________________
From: jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com>
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Sent: Sun, 13 December, 2009 5:10:14 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
The google system does not support devanagari in Discussion Pages. For those of
us in the West, DN script appears as ??????????? only, even when Mangal or
Sans2003 is installed in out fontFile.
???The same applies to some characters in iTrans, or IAST notation.
???The only transliteration that is universally accessible is the Harvard-Kyoto
system:
???a A i I u U r R, &c.
???It would be most helpful if you would advise members to use this method, so
that their queries and comments can be more easily read.
x?x
jd
--
santoSaH paramo lAbhaH satsaGgaH paramA gatiH |
vicAraH paramaM jJAnaM zamo hi paramaM sukham ||
??????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ?????
?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??????
Contentment is the highest gain, Good Company the highest course,
Enquiry the highest wisdom, and Peace the highest enjoyment.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- Yoga Vasishtha
Selections from an ongoing translation? can be had at:
http://groups.google.com/group/yoga-vasishtha
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:50:43 +0530
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Devanagari and Transliterations
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4b25d93b.6030...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
uttama dR^iShTaantaM, upendra mahodaya :-)
????? ?????????? ???????? ????? :-)
Jiva daasa mahodaya,
If you're viewing gmail through windows, did you enable "complex scripts
(indic etc.)" support in your windows xp?
Otherwise, you'll only see ??????? characters regardless of installing
Indic unicode fonts.
To enable it,
Control Panel -> Regional and Language Options -> "Languages" tab ->
Turn on "Install files for complex script and ..." option
and click ok.
BTW, is there a Google inline editor that supports sanskrit natively? I
only see the "hindi" option, not sanskrit option. Also, what's its
transliteration scheme?
Currently I'm typing stuff in Itranslator 2003 in ITRANS, converting it
to dvng script and copy-pasting it into my gmail window.
- Sai.
Upendra Watwe wrote:
> Hello Jiva Das,
> As far as my knowledge goes, google is the best way ahead for all of
> us who are limited by keyboards designed for the roman alphabet.
> You can continue to write using the same letters you are used to and
> google will render the text correctly in devnagari.
> Now if the advocacy of not using Google arises from not knowing
> devnagari script, then I would be gladly willing to share my time to
> help you understand the pronounciations of each devnagari
> letter(consonants , vowels and combinations).
> If its a confusion of what combination of roman characters bring about
> a proper representation of each akshar- then I will definitely help.
> Devnagari script is by far the ONLY script in the world that can
> truely represent nearly all possible pronunciations? with no ambiguities.
> Each letter is always represented by the same sound, irrespective of
> its position with the word w.r.t other letters.
> For those who are interested, I would like to remind that the word for
> a letter/ character in devnagari is- Akshar- something that does not
> decay/ change/ degrade.
> Should we still insist on exchange of such great? knowledge by using a
> ill equipped script as roman ?
>?
> This insistence on using the poorly equipped roman alphabet for
> writing and discussing sanskrit reminds me of the story of the king
> who asked the athletes from visiting teams to run using crutches
> because his team was physically challenged !!!
> I also know that this will suddenly cause a big furore about me
> raising such an issue.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:40 PM, jiva das <das.j...@gmail.com
> <mailto:das.j...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>? ???The google system does not support devanagari in Discussion Pages.
>? ???For those of us in the West, DN script appears as ???????????
>? ???only, even when Mangal or Sans2003 is installed in out fontFile.
>? ? ? ? The same applies to some characters in iTrans, or IAST notation.
>? ? ? ? The only transliteration that is universally accessible is the
>? ???Harvard-Kyoto system:
>? ? ? ? a A i I u U r R, &c.
>? ? ? ? It would be most helpful if you would advise members to use
>? ???this method, so that their queries and comments can be more easily
>? ???read.
>
>? ???x?x
>? ? ? jd
>
>? ???--
>? ???santoSaH paramo lAbhaH satsaGgaH paramA gatiH |
>? ???vicAraH paramaM jJAnaM zamo hi paramaM sukham ||
>
>? ?????????? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ?????
>? ????????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??????
>? ???Contentment is the highest gain, Good Company the highest course,
>? ???Enquiry the highest wisdom, and Peace the highest enjoyment.
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???-- Yoga Vasishtha --
>
> warm regards
> Upendra Watwe
> 400 Cold Spring Road,D409,
> Rocky Hill, CT , USA -06067
> +1-860-479-1718
> +1-860-757-3823
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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