Re: Store for Downloadable products (or Why Satchmo Will Be The End of Me)
Thanks, everyone for the feedback. John-Scott, I didn't know you could disable inventory tracking, so I'll definitely look into that. Bruce, thanks especially for the insight into the code development. That's been my understanding and certainly makes sense. And I think it explains why Satchmo continues to be developed and improved (while other Django e-commerce codebases have languished), so I can't fault it! :) I tried to explain why I need variations for downloadable products (higher resolution of media which carries a price increase with it) -- would you approach it differently than I have? I don't know that I have a huge wish list for downloadable products' features. This store I'm working on isn't the norm, so I wouldn't wish for downloadable products to gain variations by default. Custom products are clearly the way to do that. I appreciate that downloadable products have gained customizable storage backends. Potentially useful features for a wider audience I'm adding to my store are: tracking downloads (there's a subscription option so purchase count != download count), and representing products with images & videos (I'm replacing thumbnail with imagekit, by the way, because I like how it works a lot better... but I'm also not necessarily allowing products to have more than one photo apiece). At this point, with the DB complexity+performance issues & the administrative headache of configurable products, I've decided not to use that model. I've opted to build a custom product because I can structure it exactly how I want, but I can't get it to work with the cart. So here's my main question: how can I get the cart to recognize a pricing variation for my custom product? Dave On Nov 28, 11:17 pm, Bruce Kroeze wrote: > Thanks for your feedback Dave, > > Downloadable products *are* second-class citizens. I personally ignored > them for a couple years, since most of my paying clients don't use them. A > huge amount of Satchmo is based on what my paying clients have convinced me > is a real-world-need. If I can add it with little-to-no-incompatibility, I > do so. > > That isn't to say that other desires aren't important at all, it is simply > the economics of code development. More importantly, it ensures that the > needs of store owners are weighted higher than the wishes of developers. I > am not speaking for the Satchmo Project as a whole, just me, but I'm happy > to see Satchmo being developed in this manner, it keeps it honest. > > I've read your email a couple times, but I don't really see what your > questions are. You have difficulties combining configurable products and > downloadable, but other than questions about DB performance, what > specifically is the problem? Why do you need variations for downloadable > products? > > If you were to have an ultimate wish-list of features for a downloadable > product, what would they be? > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:53 AM, John-Scott Atlakson < > > > > > > john.scott.atlak...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On the inventory issue, you can disable inventory tracking altogether in > > the admin site settings. > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:21 PM, gatzby...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > >> Hmmm, my suggestion is most likely naïve and doesn't address your core > >> concern. That being said, for the number in stock for downloadable > >> products, couldn't you have a listener that listens for a sale and > >> simply adds 1 to number in stock, effectively cancelling out the > >> decrement done by the sale? > > >> On 11/24/10, Dave wrote: > >> > I'm hoping some of you who have a lot of experience with Satchmo will > >> > have some advice for me. I've been working with Satchmo for a few > >> > years now, have a few stores running off it, and now am trying to > >> > rebuild one of those stores to greatly improve how it works and its > >> > manageability for administrators. > > >> > Here's the store in a nutshell: downloadable media (entirely), where > >> > each product has two variations (SD & HD) where one variation (HD) > >> > increases the base cost of the product. Each variation has one or more > >> > files attached to it (different video formats usually), which the > >> > customer will have access to download upon completing his/her > >> > purchase. > > >> > That's pretty much it. And after a year of wrestling with Satchmo, I > >> > feel I'm no closer to a solution. I'm running trunk (Django + > >> > Satchmo), by the way. Just to set the tone here, I love a lot about > >> > Satchmo, have a huge appreciation for the hard work by Bruce, Chris, > >> > and others, and understand it can't do everything for everyone. > > >> > That said, here are what I think are my core frustrations: > > >> > 1. Downloadable products seem to be a second-class citizen in Satchmo, > >> > which seems weird to me given the age we're in. There's the field > >> > 'Number in Stock' which in my experience has to be set to some high > >> > number (so it doesn't reach 0 after a few purchase
Re: Store for Downloadable products (or Why Satchmo Will Be The End of Me)
Thanks for your feedback Dave, Downloadable products *are* second-class citizens. I personally ignored them for a couple years, since most of my paying clients don't use them. A huge amount of Satchmo is based on what my paying clients have convinced me is a real-world-need. If I can add it with little-to-no-incompatibility, I do so. That isn't to say that other desires aren't important at all, it is simply the economics of code development. More importantly, it ensures that the needs of store owners are weighted higher than the wishes of developers. I am not speaking for the Satchmo Project as a whole, just me, but I'm happy to see Satchmo being developed in this manner, it keeps it honest. I've read your email a couple times, but I don't really see what your questions are. You have difficulties combining configurable products and downloadable, but other than questions about DB performance, what specifically is the problem? Why do you need variations for downloadable products? If you were to have an ultimate wish-list of features for a downloadable product, what would they be? On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:53 AM, John-Scott Atlakson < john.scott.atlak...@gmail.com> wrote: > On the inventory issue, you can disable inventory tracking altogether in > the admin site settings. > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:21 PM, gatzby...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> Hmmm, my suggestion is most likely naïve and doesn't address your core >> concern. That being said, for the number in stock for downloadable >> products, couldn't you have a listener that listens for a sale and >> simply adds 1 to number in stock, effectively cancelling out the >> decrement done by the sale? >> >> >> On 11/24/10, Dave wrote: >> > I'm hoping some of you who have a lot of experience with Satchmo will >> > have some advice for me. I've been working with Satchmo for a few >> > years now, have a few stores running off it, and now am trying to >> > rebuild one of those stores to greatly improve how it works and its >> > manageability for administrators. >> > >> > Here's the store in a nutshell: downloadable media (entirely), where >> > each product has two variations (SD & HD) where one variation (HD) >> > increases the base cost of the product. Each variation has one or more >> > files attached to it (different video formats usually), which the >> > customer will have access to download upon completing his/her >> > purchase. >> > >> > That's pretty much it. And after a year of wrestling with Satchmo, I >> > feel I'm no closer to a solution. I'm running trunk (Django + >> > Satchmo), by the way. Just to set the tone here, I love a lot about >> > Satchmo, have a huge appreciation for the hard work by Bruce, Chris, >> > and others, and understand it can't do everything for everyone. >> > >> > That said, here are what I think are my core frustrations: >> > >> > 1. Downloadable products seem to be a second-class citizen in Satchmo, >> > which seems weird to me given the age we're in. There's the field >> > 'Number in Stock' which in my experience has to be set to some high >> > number (so it doesn't reach 0 after a few purchases) to make sure >> > downloadable products can actually be sold. >> > >> > 2. Product variations are quite complex and slow everything down. >> > Having to triple my product inventory by creating 3x of each product >> > (base product, plus two generated products for the variations) is >> > nuts. It's going to slow down every operation and it confuses my >> > clients. Additionally, the variation manager and 'add variation' views >> > (as noted in another discussion awhile ago) operate inconsistently and >> > at times don't work at all (I believe javascript is required oddly >> > enough) and don't supply any error messages. >> > >> > Every active product shows up on the site, meaning every one of those >> > product variations shows up. So I have to add my own listeners to >> > strip out variations from queries. This piles on complexity and >> > increases server & db processing time. >> > >> > 3. I think the idea behind Satchmo is for it be flexible, but my >> > experience has been that it has a fairly rigid use-case in mind and >> > straying away from that just doesn't work well. (I suppose this is the >> > core underlying issue). >> > >> > 4. I've tried to reverse engineer the shopping cart to figure out how >> > to add my own product variation that works without having to have >> > unique Product instances for everything, but it's been fruitless so >> > far. I fear my head may explode. Bottom line: I feel forced into using >> > the ConfigurableProduct approach even though it's not what I want at >> > all. I'm not selling t-shirts or computers. And I can't use the >> > downloadable product module because it doesn't fit with the types of >> > products my clients are offering (no variations). >> > >> > What would you do if this were your project? How would you configure >> > Satchmo or design a custom product module? I'm sure (o
Re: Store for Downloadable products (or Why Satchmo Will Be The End of Me)
On the inventory issue, you can disable inventory tracking altogether in the admin site settings. On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:21 PM, gatzby...@gmail.com wrote: > Hmmm, my suggestion is most likely naïve and doesn't address your core > concern. That being said, for the number in stock for downloadable > products, couldn't you have a listener that listens for a sale and > simply adds 1 to number in stock, effectively cancelling out the > decrement done by the sale? > > > On 11/24/10, Dave wrote: > > I'm hoping some of you who have a lot of experience with Satchmo will > > have some advice for me. I've been working with Satchmo for a few > > years now, have a few stores running off it, and now am trying to > > rebuild one of those stores to greatly improve how it works and its > > manageability for administrators. > > > > Here's the store in a nutshell: downloadable media (entirely), where > > each product has two variations (SD & HD) where one variation (HD) > > increases the base cost of the product. Each variation has one or more > > files attached to it (different video formats usually), which the > > customer will have access to download upon completing his/her > > purchase. > > > > That's pretty much it. And after a year of wrestling with Satchmo, I > > feel I'm no closer to a solution. I'm running trunk (Django + > > Satchmo), by the way. Just to set the tone here, I love a lot about > > Satchmo, have a huge appreciation for the hard work by Bruce, Chris, > > and others, and understand it can't do everything for everyone. > > > > That said, here are what I think are my core frustrations: > > > > 1. Downloadable products seem to be a second-class citizen in Satchmo, > > which seems weird to me given the age we're in. There's the field > > 'Number in Stock' which in my experience has to be set to some high > > number (so it doesn't reach 0 after a few purchases) to make sure > > downloadable products can actually be sold. > > > > 2. Product variations are quite complex and slow everything down. > > Having to triple my product inventory by creating 3x of each product > > (base product, plus two generated products for the variations) is > > nuts. It's going to slow down every operation and it confuses my > > clients. Additionally, the variation manager and 'add variation' views > > (as noted in another discussion awhile ago) operate inconsistently and > > at times don't work at all (I believe javascript is required oddly > > enough) and don't supply any error messages. > > > > Every active product shows up on the site, meaning every one of those > > product variations shows up. So I have to add my own listeners to > > strip out variations from queries. This piles on complexity and > > increases server & db processing time. > > > > 3. I think the idea behind Satchmo is for it be flexible, but my > > experience has been that it has a fairly rigid use-case in mind and > > straying away from that just doesn't work well. (I suppose this is the > > core underlying issue). > > > > 4. I've tried to reverse engineer the shopping cart to figure out how > > to add my own product variation that works without having to have > > unique Product instances for everything, but it's been fruitless so > > far. I fear my head may explode. Bottom line: I feel forced into using > > the ConfigurableProduct approach even though it's not what I want at > > all. I'm not selling t-shirts or computers. And I can't use the > > downloadable product module because it doesn't fit with the types of > > products my clients are offering (no variations). > > > > What would you do if this were your project? How would you configure > > Satchmo or design a custom product module? I'm sure (or at least very > > hopeful) that I'm doing it the "wrong" way and I've missed some > > important details. > > > > Is there an advanced guide to the cart and how to design a custom > > product module with one variation for every product so it works with > > the cart? > > > > Many, many thanks in advance for your comments & suggestions! > > > > Dave > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Satchmo users" group. > > To post to this group, send email to satchmo-us...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > satchmo-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/satchmo-users?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Brian O'Connor > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Satchmo users" group. > To post to this group, send email to satchmo-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > satchmo-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/satchmo-users?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Satchmo users" group.
Re: Store for Downloadable products (or Why Satchmo Will Be The End of Me)
Hmmm, my suggestion is most likely naïve and doesn't address your core concern. That being said, for the number in stock for downloadable products, couldn't you have a listener that listens for a sale and simply adds 1 to number in stock, effectively cancelling out the decrement done by the sale? On 11/24/10, Dave wrote: > I'm hoping some of you who have a lot of experience with Satchmo will > have some advice for me. I've been working with Satchmo for a few > years now, have a few stores running off it, and now am trying to > rebuild one of those stores to greatly improve how it works and its > manageability for administrators. > > Here's the store in a nutshell: downloadable media (entirely), where > each product has two variations (SD & HD) where one variation (HD) > increases the base cost of the product. Each variation has one or more > files attached to it (different video formats usually), which the > customer will have access to download upon completing his/her > purchase. > > That's pretty much it. And after a year of wrestling with Satchmo, I > feel I'm no closer to a solution. I'm running trunk (Django + > Satchmo), by the way. Just to set the tone here, I love a lot about > Satchmo, have a huge appreciation for the hard work by Bruce, Chris, > and others, and understand it can't do everything for everyone. > > That said, here are what I think are my core frustrations: > > 1. Downloadable products seem to be a second-class citizen in Satchmo, > which seems weird to me given the age we're in. There's the field > 'Number in Stock' which in my experience has to be set to some high > number (so it doesn't reach 0 after a few purchases) to make sure > downloadable products can actually be sold. > > 2. Product variations are quite complex and slow everything down. > Having to triple my product inventory by creating 3x of each product > (base product, plus two generated products for the variations) is > nuts. It's going to slow down every operation and it confuses my > clients. Additionally, the variation manager and 'add variation' views > (as noted in another discussion awhile ago) operate inconsistently and > at times don't work at all (I believe javascript is required oddly > enough) and don't supply any error messages. > > Every active product shows up on the site, meaning every one of those > product variations shows up. So I have to add my own listeners to > strip out variations from queries. This piles on complexity and > increases server & db processing time. > > 3. I think the idea behind Satchmo is for it be flexible, but my > experience has been that it has a fairly rigid use-case in mind and > straying away from that just doesn't work well. (I suppose this is the > core underlying issue). > > 4. I've tried to reverse engineer the shopping cart to figure out how > to add my own product variation that works without having to have > unique Product instances for everything, but it's been fruitless so > far. I fear my head may explode. Bottom line: I feel forced into using > the ConfigurableProduct approach even though it's not what I want at > all. I'm not selling t-shirts or computers. And I can't use the > downloadable product module because it doesn't fit with the types of > products my clients are offering (no variations). > > What would you do if this were your project? How would you configure > Satchmo or design a custom product module? I'm sure (or at least very > hopeful) that I'm doing it the "wrong" way and I've missed some > important details. > > Is there an advanced guide to the cart and how to design a custom > product module with one variation for every product so it works with > the cart? > > Many, many thanks in advance for your comments & suggestions! > > Dave > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Satchmo users" group. > To post to this group, send email to satchmo-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > satchmo-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/satchmo-users?hl=en. > > -- Sent from my mobile device Brian O'Connor -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Satchmo users" group. To post to this group, send email to satchmo-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to satchmo-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/satchmo-users?hl=en.
Re: Store for Downloadable products (or Why Satchmo Will Be The End of Me)
I haven't looked into whether downloads can be used with it, but have you looked into custom products? I had the same problem with explosions of complexity using ConfigurableProduct and ProductVariation objects with items with >5 or so options. On Nov 24, 12:02 pm, Dave wrote: > I'm hoping some of you who have a lot of experience with Satchmo will > have some advice for me. I've been working with Satchmo for a few > years now, have a few stores running off it, and now am trying to > rebuild one of those stores to greatly improve how it works and its > manageability for administrators. > > Here's the store in a nutshell: downloadable media (entirely), where > each product has two variations (SD & HD) where one variation (HD) > increases the base cost of the product. Each variation has one or more > files attached to it (different video formats usually), which the > customer will have access to download upon completing his/her > purchase. > > That's pretty much it. And after a year of wrestling with Satchmo, I > feel I'm no closer to a solution. I'm running trunk (Django + > Satchmo), by the way. Just to set the tone here, I love a lot about > Satchmo, have a huge appreciation for the hard work by Bruce, Chris, > and others, and understand it can't do everything for everyone. > > That said, here are what I think are my core frustrations: > > 1. Downloadable products seem to be a second-class citizen in Satchmo, > which seems weird to me given the age we're in. There's the field > 'Number in Stock' which in my experience has to be set to some high > number (so it doesn't reach 0 after a few purchases) to make sure > downloadable products can actually be sold. > > 2. Product variations are quite complex and slow everything down. > Having to triple my product inventory by creating 3x of each product > (base product, plus two generated products for the variations) is > nuts. It's going to slow down every operation and it confuses my > clients. Additionally, the variation manager and 'add variation' views > (as noted in another discussion awhile ago) operate inconsistently and > at times don't work at all (I believe javascript is required oddly > enough) and don't supply any error messages. > > Every active product shows up on the site, meaning every one of those > product variations shows up. So I have to add my own listeners to > strip out variations from queries. This piles on complexity and > increases server & db processing time. > > 3. I think the idea behind Satchmo is for it be flexible, but my > experience has been that it has a fairly rigid use-case in mind and > straying away from that just doesn't work well. (I suppose this is the > core underlying issue). > > 4. I've tried to reverse engineer the shopping cart to figure out how > to add my own product variation that works without having to have > unique Product instances for everything, but it's been fruitless so > far. I fear my head may explode. Bottom line: I feel forced into using > the ConfigurableProduct approach even though it's not what I want at > all. I'm not selling t-shirts or computers. And I can't use the > downloadable product module because it doesn't fit with the types of > products my clients are offering (no variations). > > What would you do if this were your project? How would you configure > Satchmo or design a custom product module? I'm sure (or at least very > hopeful) that I'm doing it the "wrong" way and I've missed some > important details. > > Is there an advanced guide to the cart and how to design a custom > product module with one variation for every product so it works with > the cart? > > Many, many thanks in advance for your comments & suggestions! > > Dave -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Satchmo users" group. To post to this group, send email to satchmo-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to satchmo-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/satchmo-users?hl=en.
