[SC-L] Information Protection Policies
Hopefully lots of the consultants on this list have been wildly successful in getting Fortune enterprises to embrace secure coding practices. I am curious to learn of those who have also been successful in getting these same Fortune enterprises to incorporate the notion of secure coding practices into an information protection policy and whether there are any publicly available examples. * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
[SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
If you have two individuals, one of which has been practicing secure coding practices and encouraging others to do so for years while another individual was involved with firewalls, intrusion detection, information security policies and so on, are they both information security professionals or just the later? * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
actually just the former. Robert Garigue characterized firewalls, nids, et al as good network hygiene. The equivalent of a dentist telling you to brush your teeth. An infosec pro needs much more depth than that. The model is charlemagne http://1raindrop.typepad.com/1_raindrop/2007/02/thinking_about_.html -gp -Original Message- From: McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, Mar 8, 2007 10:27 am Subject: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? If you have two individuals, one of which has been practicing secure coding= practices and encouraging others to do so for years while another individu= al was involved with firewalls, intrusion detection, information security p= olicies and so on, are they both information security professionals or just= the later? * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
The right answer is both IMO. You need the thinkers, integrators, and operators to do it right. The term Security Professional at its basic level simply denotes someone who works to make things secure. You can't be secure with only application security any more than you can be secure with only firewalls or NIDs. The entire ecosystem and lifecycle must be risk managed and that is accomplished by security professionals. Each professional may have a specialty due to the breadth of topics covered by Security (let's not forget our Physical Security either), but all would be expected to act as professionals. Professionals in this definition being people who are certified and expected to operate within specified standards of quality and behavior much like CISSP, CPA, MD, etc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunnar Peterson Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: SC-L@securecoding.org Subject: Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? actually just the former. Robert Garigue characterized firewalls, nids, et al as good network hygiene. The equivalent of a dentist telling you to brush your teeth. An infosec pro needs much more depth than that. The model is charlemagne http://1raindrop.typepad.com/1_raindrop/2007/02/thinking_about_.html -gp -Original Message- From: McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, Mar 8, 2007 10:27 am Subject: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? If you have two individuals, one of which has been practicing secure coding= practices and encouraging others to do so for years while another individu= al was involved with firewalls, intrusion detection, information security p= olicies and so on, are they both information security professionals or just= the later? * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___ ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
Traditionally InfoSec folks defined themselves as being knowledgable in firewalls, policies, etc. Lately, many enterprises are starting to recognize the importance of security within the software development lifecycle where even some have acknowledged that software is a common problem space for those things traditionally thought of as infrastructure. The harder part is not in terms of recognizing the trend but in terms of folks from the old world acknowledging folks from the new world (software development) also as security professionals. I haven't seen many folks make this transition. I do suspect that some of it is tied to the romance of certifications such as CISSP whereby the exams that prove you are a security professional talk all about physical security and network security but really don't address software development in any meaningful way. Would be intriguing for folks here that blog to discuss ways for folks to transition / acknowledge respect not as just software developers with a specialization in security but in being true security professionals and treat them like peers all working on one common goal. -Original Message- From: Shea, Brian A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:07 PM To: Gunnar Peterson; McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) Cc: SC-L@securecoding.org Subject: RE: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? The right answer is both IMO. You need the thinkers, integrators, and operators to do it right. The term Security Professional at its basic level simply denotes someone who works to make things secure. You can't be secure with only application security any more than you can be secure with only firewalls or NIDs. The entire ecosystem and lifecycle must be risk managed and that is accomplished by security professionals. Each professional may have a specialty due to the breadth of topics covered by Security (let's not forget our Physical Security either), but all would be expected to act as professionals. Professionals in this definition being people who are certified and expected to operate within specified standards of quality and behavior much like CISSP, CPA, MD, etc. * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
On 3/9/07, McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Traditionally InfoSec folks defined themselves as being knowledgable in firewalls, policies, etc. Lately, many enterprises are starting to recognize the importance of security within the software development lifecycle where even some have acknowledged that software is a common problem space for those things traditionally thought of as infrastructure. The harder part is not in terms of recognizing the trend but in terms of folks from the old world acknowledging folks from the new world (software development) also as security professionals. I haven't seen many folks make this transition. I do suspect that some of it is tied to the romance of certifications such as CISSP whereby the exams that prove you are a security professional talk all about physical security and network security but really don't address software development in any meaningful way. Would be intriguing for folks here that blog to discuss ways for folks to transition / acknowledge respect not as just software developers with a specialization in security but in being true security professionals and treat them like peers all working on one common goal. i hear you on this one. australia, at least melbourne, still doesn't seem to have any idea of software/application security professionals. almost all jobs that have 'security' in them, then go on to talk about all the firewalls you must know how to configure. *sigh*. then there is the pen-testing side. there's should be a new field, security design that accompanies application architect, etc. then you have professional guidance of the security issues when building for app. -Original Message- From: Shea, Brian A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:07 PM To: Gunnar Peterson; McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) Cc: SC-L@securecoding.org Subject: RE: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? The right answer is both IMO. You need the thinkers, integrators, and operators to do it right. The term Security Professional at its basic level simply denotes someone who works to make things secure. You can't be secure with only application security any more than you can be secure with only firewalls or NIDs. The entire ecosystem and lifecycle must be risk managed and that is accomplished by security professionals. Each professional may have a specialty due to the breadth of topics covered by Security (let's not forget our Physical Security either), but all would be expected to act as professionals. Professionals in this definition being people who are certified and expected to operate within specified standards of quality and behavior much like CISSP, CPA, MD, etc. * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___ -- mike 00110001 3 00110111 ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
What Garigue was trying to say is that deploying a firewall on a network is not security's mandate; it is _part of_ running a network. Basic hygiene. Brushing your teeth is part of having teeth. Deploying anti-virus on a windows desktop is not security; it is _part of_ operating a desktop. This is an important distinction, because it captures why so much security spend is targeted at the wrong issues. Security evolved out of operations, and today we all still live with this historical baggage. If you want to operate a network or a desktop in an enterprise, you have certain security responsibilities defined by information security policy...perhaps even backed up mechanisms, good for you, but these have little to do with information security, much like going to a dentist that just told you to brush your teeth and gave you a tooth brush would have extremely limited valueyet this is what we get from information security groups across this great cyberland of ours. I would point you to the fallacy of keeping up with the Jones' explored in detail at the Justice League http://www.cigital.com/justiceleague/2007/02/22/keeping-up-with-the-jones-se curity-initiatives/ Security groups that help businesses make risk tradeoffs based on functionality, time, and cost add value (you know just like software development does). Amateurs study cryptography; professionals study economics. -- Allan Schiffman -gp On 3/8/07 1:07 PM, Shea, Brian A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The right answer is both IMO. You need the thinkers, integrators, and operators to do it right. The term Security Professional at its basic level simply denotes someone who works to make things secure. You can't be secure with only application security any more than you can be secure with only firewalls or NIDs. The entire ecosystem and lifecycle must be risk managed and that is accomplished by security professionals. Each professional may have a specialty due to the breadth of topics covered by Security (let's not forget our Physical Security either), but all would be expected to act as professionals. Professionals in this definition being people who are certified and expected to operate within specified standards of quality and behavior much like CISSP, CPA, MD, etc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunnar Peterson Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: SC-L@securecoding.org Subject: Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? actually just the former. Robert Garigue characterized firewalls, nids, et al as good network hygiene. The equivalent of a dentist telling you to brush your teeth. An infosec pro needs much more depth than that. The model is charlemagne http://1raindrop.typepad.com/1_raindrop/2007/02/thinking_about_.html -gp -Original Message- From: McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, Mar 8, 2007 10:27 am Subject: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional? If you have two individuals, one of which has been practicing secure coding= practices and encouraging others to do so for years while another individu= al was involved with firewalls, intrusion detection, information security p= olicies and so on, are they both information security professionals or just= the later? * This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this communication and destroy all copies. * ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___ ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
Re: [SC-L] What defines an InfoSec Professional?
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, Greg Beeley wrote: Perhaps one of the issues here is that if you are in operations work (network security, etc.), there are more aspects of the CISSP that are relevant to your daily work. In software development, there is usually just the one - app development sec - that the developer thinks about, unless the code has inherent security functionality, in which case access control, architecture/models, and cryptography can be important too. Secure development certification will hopefully come to the marketplace in droves in the next year or two. One organization is not-so-privately-but-technically-not-yet-publicly preparing to roll something out in the coming months, and hopefully that will inspire others. Insert obligatory cert disclaimer here, but geez it's badly needed to raise the bar even a hair. developer meet, to be a security professional? Should there be something like the Common Criteria EAL's, but somewhat less formal, to encourage broader use in labeling projects and code, esp. in the open-source world? Dave Litchfield and I have *very* casually investigated forming a CC-like concept of Vulnerability Assessment Assurance Levels (VAAL) which is intended to reflect the depth of a vuln researcher's analysis as some crude but semi-repeatable measure of assurance. i've also done some thinking about vulnerability complexity, and I assume I've mentioned my vulnerability theory work on this list since I never shut up about it. Such concepts could be turned around to reflect the depth of understanding that a developer has - e.g. they know enough to try to strip out SCRIPT tags but they don't know about javascript: in IMG tags. I have a couple pages of working notes on VAAL for offline dissemination for interested parties who promise to give me feedback. - Steve ___ Secure Coding mailing list (SC-L) SC-L@securecoding.org List information, subscriptions, etc - http://krvw.com/mailman/listinfo/sc-l List charter available at - http://www.securecoding.org/list/charter.php SC-L is hosted and moderated by KRvW Associates, LLC (http://www.KRvW.com) as a free, non-commercial service to the software security community. ___
