Re: [SC-L] How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread Stephen Craig Evans
Hi Mark, What I have seen is that the organization develops security standards/guidelines and secure coding guidelines tailored to the org. If the org is big enough to have its own security team, then they do it; if not, then they hire consultants to do it. It's not too difficult to find out

[SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread Herman Stevens
Hello Jim, I tend to disagree with your statement that security requirements should be part of contractual agreements or added to a purchase order. In the Real World (™ ☺) this does not work. Once signed, contracts are never looked at again, unless the shit hits the fan and someone must be

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread Marcin Wielgoszewski
Steven, There are more than several managers of application security programs for F-100 companies that have written security requirements into their SLA's with outsourced development firms. One example uses application penetration testing and vulnerability assessment findings to enforce SLA

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread Herman Stevens
Hello Marcin, I agree with your statement that many companies have some requirements in their SLA's with outsourced development firms. However, if these are really F-100 businesses they usually have all non-core processes out-sourced (because a Big4 company told them that would reduce costs),

Re: [SC-L] How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread ljknews
At 9:03 PM -0500 11/26/08, Mark Rockman wrote: OK. So you decide to outsource your programming assignment to Asia and demand that they deliver code that is so locked down that it cannot misbehave. How can you tell that what they deliver is truly locked down? Will you wait until it gets hacked?

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT)
Asking about security in terms of an RFP is a big joke and reminds me of tactics I used in sixth grade when I used to figure out creative ways of answering a question by turning the question into an answer. One has to acknowledge that RFPs are not authoratative and are usually completed by sales

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread Jim Manico
I think adding clear security requirements at the contractual level is *fundamental and necessary* when yes? yesworking with vendors who are writing software for you. Don't we talk about software security as being just another integrated part of writing software, not as an external activity? I'm

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT)
I am of the belief that the examples you provided are more requirements for your own staff. For example, shouldn't your business analysts define regular expressions and include them as functional requirements where the firm simply calls them? If you want regex's externalized into properties

Re: [SC-L] FW: How Can You Tell It Is Written Securely?

2008-12-01 Thread McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT)
Some other thoughts that I haven't heard others mention? 1. OK, if you find that they didn't meet all the security requirements, will your business customers still want you to put it into production anyway? If the answer is yes, do you still want them to support it? How do we quantify who is