a few notes..
From: jnf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:23 AM
To: Dave Paris
Cc: Serban Gh. Ghita; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SC-L] virtual server - security
What's the point of the exercise if you're passing plaintext passwords
across on port 21? At the very least, mandate SCP/SFTP on port 22.
yes because having a remote exploit every month or two for
root^H^H^HSecure shell is much better than limiting it to sniffing on the
lan, or even better than using one of the ssl type wrappers for telnet.
Sniffing on the LAN isn't my main concern, it's the concentration points
inbetween A and B. Good idea on the SSL wrapper on Telnet, although the
original poster said they doesn't want to offer shell access. I'm not quite
sure the security community's concensus would agree that FTP is better than
SCP/SFTP. I certainly don't, but I've already made that point. So that
leaves us with flaws in implementation *and* plaintext usernames/passwords.
That doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
use 'chroot' jails
and look into kernel patches like grsec that take some of the damn
stupidity out of the standard chroot system call. You perhaps may want to
look into where you might be able to use read only filesystems in your
setup, while breaking out of a (good) chroot jail on a read only
is not impossible- it could make life hell for quite a few.
Good call. Perhaps better would be using SELinux as a base, although the
learning curve is one heckuvalot steeper.
PHP and run safely in the same sentence? Have you perused Bugtraq
have you ever noticied that a good 80-90% of those posts are cross site
scripting holes or sql injections that are the result of shoddy
programming (web developers bad programmers as a whole? nooo never.)
And less often language specific. As to answer the poster's question, I'm
not sure if suexec works with php, i dont think it does, but you might
want to look into that or see if you can find something similar.
That's primarily because PHP will let you shoot yourself in the head, as
opposed to most languages which will only let you shoot yourself in the
foot, or at least no higher than the knee. (snide
commentary... unless it's
a microsoft product, which seem to aim squarely for the jewels)
yea I'd describe a stack or heap based overflow to be shooting
Assuming your foot is squarely between your thighs or in front of your
nose.. ;-) My comments were based on the nature of the poster's message,
which seemed to allow scripted/interpreted languages rather than compiled
executables, given the lack of shell access. (that's not to say that a user
can't upload a binary, but if a non-x86 arch is chosen as a base for the
deployment, things get tougher for a user to screw up by default... save for
misconfigurations of the host, of course)
Yes. Near daily bugtraq reports about why PHP is a darned good
made a left turn into a really bad neighborhood. The manpage for
SCP/SFTP/SSH. The manpage for 'chroot'.
I will agree that php could be more secure, although i must admit
a hell of a long ways since its first introduction, there are plenty of
articles over php security on google- I'm sure your local bookstore will
have books that will at least cover the subject to some degree. Just like
any language php will let you screw yourself- most of what you find on
bugtraq as I said are not language problems, but programmer problems. A
quick google search will show nearly as many exploits (if not more) for
[open]ssh as for wuftp, yet wu is considered horribly insecure and ssh
secure, go figure. I'd also look into chroot as suggested, I am unsure of
whether it is avail. to php programs, it might be- and you might consider
figuring a way to wrap all php scripts executed in chroot, although if it
is anything like perl, chroot'ing it will be a major pain in the ass.
In short, screw bugtraq- goto google or your book store, or even
they are all bound to have tons of information about what you are looking
It's not the poster who's writing the PHP, it's the users. Unless the users
are sufficiently clued into the existing issues, the view doesn't change.
My comments regarding PHP are centered around most of the default
configuration issues that too many web programmers (for very loose values
of the word programmer) won't mitigate or fail to mitigate at any rate.
While all of the flaws stated can be reproduced in any language, PHP makes
it _relatively_ easy for the flaws to remain, or to be coded in.
Rather than going to specific distributions, I ran a slightly different
search terms: exploit SCP results: 9,810
search terms: exploit SFTP results: 3,300
search terms: exploit SSH results: 71,900
search terms: exploit FTP results: 285,000
What does this mean? Not much