Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-07 Thread Martin Baxter 
I'll check the video in a bit, and thanks for finding it for me.

And your last sentence again makes me wish I still wrote harder SF.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> There are several other videos of it on youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIg6pWwezEU&NR=1
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIg6pWwezEU&NR=1>I was thinking that
> because you can control it with a magnetic field could you also increase
> output by using multiple detuned engines that combine at the output?
>
> They said in the video that it could reach speeds up to 140,000mph. Which
> could make a trip to the moon and back something you could do on your lunch
> break.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> So much for that. Vid's not up right now. I've bookmarked it, and will
>> come back to it.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Martin Baxter 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks much, Mr Worf! About to pause the work to watch it now...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They have shown it on a couple of shows. It was developed by a former
>>>> astronaut. Here's a video:
>>>> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable
>>>>>>> recently. I think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They 
>>>>>>> had an
>>>>>>> ep on deep space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program
>>>>>>> indicated they're getting better all the time, and that in the next ten 
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> twenty years, we may be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> probes using ion power.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium
>>>>>>> nuclear reactor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that
>>>>>>> idea...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion
>>>>>>>> drive I did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had 
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> "Spock's Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia 
>>>>>>>> set. I'd
>>>>>>>> read about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in
>>>>>>>> solution, and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> idea of using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then 
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> was that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain 
>>>>>>>> used ion
>>>>>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that 
>>>>>>&

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-06 Thread Mr. Worf 
There are several other videos of it on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIg6pWwezEU&NR=1

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIg6pWwezEU&NR=1>I was thinking that because
you can control it with a magnetic field could you also increase output by
using multiple detuned engines that combine at the output?

They said in the video that it could reach speeds up to 140,000mph. Which
could make a trip to the moon and back something you could do on your lunch
break.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

>
>
> So much for that. Vid's not up right now. I've bookmarked it, and will come
> back to it.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>> Thanks much, Mr Worf! About to pause the work to watch it now...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They have shown it on a couple of shows. It was developed by a former
>>> astronaut. Here's a video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536>
>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable
>>>>>> recently. I think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> ep on deep space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program
>>>>>> indicated they're getting better all the time, and that in the next ten -
>>>>>> twenty years, we may be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> probes using ion power.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium
>>>>>> nuclear reactor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that
>>>>>> idea...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion
>>>>>>> drive I did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had 
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> "Spock's Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia 
>>>>>>> set. I'd
>>>>>>> read about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in
>>>>>>> solution, and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> idea of using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then 
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> was that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used 
>>>>>>> ion
>>>>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that 
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>>>>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting 
>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>>>>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot 
>>>>>>> arms
>>>>>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in 
>>>>>>>

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-06 Thread Martin Baxter 
So much for that. Vid's not up right now. I've bookmarked it, and will come
back to it.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Thanks much, Mr Worf! About to pause the work to watch it now...
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> They have shown it on a couple of shows. It was developed by a former
>> astronaut. Here's a video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536
>>
>>
>> <http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently.
>>>>> I think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on 
>>>>> deep
>>>>> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated 
>>>>> they're
>>>>> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we 
>>>>> may
>>>>> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
>>>>> power.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium
>>>>> nuclear reactor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive
>>>>>> I did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be
>>>>>> "Spock's Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. 
>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>> read about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in
>>>>>> solution, and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the
>>>>>> idea of using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> was that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used 
>>>>>> ion
>>>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>>>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>>>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting 
>>>>>> next
>>>>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>>>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot 
>>>>>> arms
>>>>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in 
>>>>>> old
>>>>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>>>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>>>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the 
>>>>>> tank
>>>>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the 
>>>>>> world a
>>>>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>>>>> would shoot into space.
>>>>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the
>>>>>> problem of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how 
>>>>>> excited
>>>>>> I was at what I thought I'd created!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
&g

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-06 Thread Martin Baxter 
Thanks much, Mr Worf! About to pause the work to watch it now...

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> They have shown it on a couple of shows. It was developed by a former
> astronaut. Here's a video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536
>
>
> <http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently.
>>>> I think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on 
>>>> deep
>>>> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're
>>>> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we 
>>>> may
>>>> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
>>>> power.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive
>>>>> I did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be
>>>>> "Spock's Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. 
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> read about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in
>>>>> solution, and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the
>>>>> idea of using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then 
>>>>> there
>>>>> was that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used 
>>>>> ion
>>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting 
>>>>> next
>>>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot 
>>>>> arms
>>>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>>>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the 
>>>>> tank
>>>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the 
>>>>> world a
>>>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>>>> would shoot into space.
>>>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the
>>>>> problem of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how 
>>>>> excited
>>>>> I was at what I thought I'd created!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium
>>>>> nuclear reactor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people
>>>>> completely move away from the big government thinking on energy I think 
>>>>> the
>>>>> flood gates will open w

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-06 Thread Mr. Worf 
They have shown it on a couple of shows. It was developed by a former
astronaut. Here's a video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536


<http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a7_1255323536>
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

>
>
> No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I
>>> think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep
>>> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're
>>> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may
>>> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
>>> power.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>>>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be 
>>>> "Spock's
>>>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>>>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>>>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>>>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>>>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting 
>>>> next
>>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world 
>>>> a
>>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>>> would shoot into space.
>>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the
>>>> problem of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how 
>>>> excited
>>>> I was at what I thought I'd created!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>>>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood 
>>>> gates
>>>> will open with new ideas.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Took them long enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late
>>>>> 70s. A shame he's passed on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are d

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-06 Thread Martin Baxter 
No, not yet. I'll keep an eye out for it.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I
>> think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep
>> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're
>> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may
>> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
>> power.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Martin Baxter" 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>> reactor
>>
>>
>>
>> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
>>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>> would shoot into space.
>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
>>> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
>>> at what I thought I'd created!
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
>>> will open with new ideas.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Took them long enough.
>>>>
>>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late
>>>> 70s. A shame he's passed on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the 
>>>>> cost
>>>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear 
>>>>> fuel.
>>>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>>>> thorium fuel-cycle

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Keith Johnson 
Yeah, that was something else 

- Original Message - 
From: "Mr. Worf"  
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2010 12:27:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine? 


On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson < [email protected] > 
wrote: 






Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I think 
it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep space 
probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're getting 
better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may be able to 
see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion power. 


- Original Message - 
From: "Martin Baxter" < [email protected] > 
To: [email protected] 

Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea... 





On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson < [email protected] > 
wrote: 









Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I did in 
second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's Brain"), 
and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read about how 
cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution, and I'd read 
about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of using fusion power 
to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was that Trek ep where they 
said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion power, which Kirk said was even 
beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd stumbled on a major secret, I took 
pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside 
was a giant water tank. Sitting next to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem 
locomotive, was a big pile of cesium bricks--just sitting there. Next to them 
were some crazy robot arms with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot 
extremities as depicted in old cartoons). The robot hands--two of them--would 
take turns dumping cesium bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was 
a big A battery and wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one 
side of the tank by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for 
all the world a tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the 
electrons would shoot into space. 
Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem of 
both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was at what 
I thought I'd created! 


- Original Message - 
From: "Mr. Worf" < [email protected] > 
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely move 
away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates will 
open with new ideas. 


On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter < [email protected] > 
wrote: 





Took them long enough. 

One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s. A 
shame he's passed on. 





On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf < [email protected] > wrote: 








Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor 
designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. This reactor was given a supportive 
article by the UK Telegraph. It has been extensively studied for over 15 years 
and is expected to have half the cost of existing light water reactors and burn 
up almost all of the nuclear fuel. The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has 
bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his 
design for a proton accelerator at its UK operation. They are raising 100 
million pounds ($150 million USD) for the next stage of an estimated 2 billion 
pound ($3 billion USD) project to develop the first commercial unit. 




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How to Make Money 
Executive Jobs 
Paid Surveys 


Thank You 










-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell 
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 













-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell 
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Mr. Worf 
Did you see the show where they debuted the plasma powered engine?

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Keith Johnson wrote:

>
>
> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I
> think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep
> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're
> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may
> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
> power.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Martin Baxter" 
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
> reactor
>
>
>
> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>> would shoot into space.
>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
>> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
>> at what I thought I'd created!
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>> reactor
>>
>>
>>
>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
>> will open with new ideas.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Took them long enough.
>>>
>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>>> A shame he's passed on.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear 
>>>> fuel.
>>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator 
>>>> at
>>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) 
>>>> for
>>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrHs/THyDzmlalII/I3U/xWKRAKNWsYI/s1600/rubbiaenergyamp

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Martin Baxter 
Keith, there was a similar show on the Science Channel not too long ago,
saying basically the same thing. I know it wasn't the same show, because I
also saw the one you mentioned.

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Keith Johnson wrote:

>
>
> Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I
> think it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep
> space probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're
> getting better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may
> be able to see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion
> power.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Martin Baxter" 
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
> reactor
>
>
>
> Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>> would shoot into space.
>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
>> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
>> at what I thought I'd created!
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>> reactor
>>
>>
>>
>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
>> will open with new ideas.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Took them long enough.
>>>
>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>>> A shame he's passed on.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear 
>>>> fuel.
>>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator 
>>>> at
>>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) 
>>>> for
>>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Martin Baxter 
I think it's just that, Mr Worf.

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> If they wait any longer it will become impossible to send any team into
> space. Or is it the cost of bureaucracy and could be done by a private
> corporation for 1/100th of the cost?
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> We can, but it's expensive as all get-out.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was watching a show about mining the moon last night. They said that
>>> the cost of returning to the moon would be about $100 Billion now. I don't
>>> understand how it could cost so much money to do a manned mission. I wonder
>>> how much of the cost would change if they were to use a
>>> different propulsion system?
>>>
>>> One question I do have is why can't they make H3 here? They are saying
>>> that one ton of H3 would be worth several billion.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Keith Johnson >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>>>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be 
>>>> "Spock's
>>>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>>>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>>>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>>>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>>>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting 
>>>> next
>>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world 
>>>> a
>>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>>> would shoot into space.
>>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the
>>>> problem of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how 
>>>> excited
>>>> I was at what I thought I'd created!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>>>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood 
>>>> gates
>>>> will open with new ideas.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Took them long enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late
>>>>> 70s. A shame he's passed on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Keith Johnson 
Ha-ha! I was watching one of the great science shows on cable recently. I think 
it was "The Universe" on The History Channel. They had an ep on deep space 
probes and discussed ion powered ships. The program indicated they're getting 
better all the time, and that in the next ten - twenty years, we may be able to 
see a severalfold increase in the speed of probes using ion power. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Martin Baxter"  
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:15:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea... 


On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson < [email protected] > 
wrote: 









Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I did in 
second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's Brain"), 
and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read about how 
cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution, and I'd read 
about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of using fusion power 
to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was that Trek ep where they 
said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion power, which Kirk said was even 
beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd stumbled on a major secret, I took 
pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside 
was a giant water tank. Sitting next to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem 
locomotive, was a big pile of cesium bricks--just sitting there. Next to them 
were some crazy robot arms with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot 
extremities as depicted in old cartoons). The robot hands--two of them--would 
take turns dumping cesium bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was 
a big A battery and wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one 
side of the tank by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for 
all the world a tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the 
electrons would shoot into space. 
Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem of 
both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was at what 
I thought I'd created! 


- Original Message - 
From: "Mr. Worf" < [email protected] > 
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely move 
away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates will 
open with new ideas. 


On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter < [email protected] > 
wrote: 





Took them long enough. 

One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s. A 
shame he's passed on. 





On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf < [email protected] > wrote: 








Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor 
designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. This reactor was given a supportive 
article by the UK Telegraph. It has been extensively studied for over 15 years 
and is expected to have half the cost of existing light water reactors and burn 
up almost all of the nuclear fuel. The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has 
bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his 
design for a proton accelerator at its UK operation. They are raising 100 
million pounds ($150 million USD) for the next stage of an estimated 2 billion 
pound ($3 billion USD) project to develop the first commercial unit. 




If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on Reddit , or 
StumbleUpon . Thanks 

Supporting Advertising 

Business Success 
How to Make Money 
Executive Jobs 
Paid Surveys 


Thank You 










-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell 
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 













-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell 
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Mr. Worf 
If they wait any longer it will become impossible to send any team into
space. Or is it the cost of bureaucracy and could be done by a private
corporation for 1/100th of the cost?

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

>
>
> We can, but it's expensive as all get-out.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I was watching a show about mining the moon last night. They said that the
>> cost of returning to the moon would be about $100 Billion now. I don't
>> understand how it could cost so much money to do a manned mission. I wonder
>> how much of the cost would change if they were to use a
>> different propulsion system?
>>
>> One question I do have is why can't they make H3 here? They are saying
>> that one ton of H3 would be worth several billion.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Keith Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
>>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
>>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
>>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>>> would shoot into space.
>>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
>>> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
>>> at what I thought I'd created!
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
>>> will open with new ideas.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Took them long enough.
>>>>
>>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late
>>>> 70s. A shame he's passed on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the 
>>>>> cost
>>>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear 
>>>>> fuel.
>>>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator 
>>>>> at
>>>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the next stage of

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Martin Baxter 
We can, but it's expensive as all get-out.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> I was watching a show about mining the moon last night. They said that the
> cost of returning to the moon would be about $100 Billion now. I don't
> understand how it could cost so much money to do a manned mission. I wonder
> how much of the cost would change if they were to use a
> different propulsion system?
>
> One question I do have is why can't they make H3 here? They are saying that
> one ton of H3 would be worth several billion.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Keith Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
>> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
>> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
>> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
>> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
>> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
>> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
>> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
>> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
>> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
>> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
>> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
>> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
>> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
>> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
>> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
>> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
>> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
>> would shoot into space.
>> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
>> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
>> at what I thought I'd created!
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mr. Worf" 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>> reactor
>>
>>
>>
>> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
>> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
>> will open with new ideas.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Took them long enough.
>>>
>>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>>> A shame he's passed on.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear 
>>>> fuel.
>>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator 
>>>> at
>>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) 
>>>> for
>>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrHs/THyDzmlalII/I3U/xWKRAKNWsYI/s1600/rubbiaenergyamp.gif>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
>>>> Reddit<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.reddit.com>,
>>>> orStumbleUpon<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/1

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-05 Thread Martin Baxter 
Aside from the battery, I'm not seeing anything wrong with that idea...

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Keith Johnson wrote:

>
>
> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
> would shoot into space.
> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
> at what I thought I'd created!
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mr. Worf" 
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
> reactor
>
>
>
> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
> will open with new ideas.
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Took them long enough.
>>
>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>> A shame he's passed on.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear fuel.
>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator at
>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) for
>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrHs/THyDzmlalII/I3U/xWKRAKNWsYI/s1600/rubbiaenergyamp.gif>
>>>
>>>
>>> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
>>> Reddit<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.reddit.com>,
>>> orStumbleUpon<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.stumbleupon.com>.
>>> Thanks*
>>>
>>> *Supporting Advertising*
>>>
>>> *Business 
>>> Success*<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.nextbigfuture.com/p/searchresults.html?PLUCKsearchTerm=Business%20Success&PLUCKwhichPage=relatedAdLinks>
>>>
>>>*How to Make Money*
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.nextbigfuture.com/p/searchresults.html?PLUCKsearchTerm=How%20to%20Make%20Money&PLUCKwhichPage=relatedAdLinks>
>>>
>>> *Executive Jobs 
>>> *<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.nextbigfuture.com/p/searchresults.html?PLUCKsearchTerm=Executive%20Jobs&PLUCKwhichPage=relatedAdLinks>
>>>
>>> *Paid 
>>> Surveys*<http://

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-04 Thread Mr. Worf 
I was watching a show about mining the moon last night. They said that the
cost of returning to the moon would be about $100 Billion now. I don't
understand how it could cost so much money to do a manned mission. I wonder
how much of the cost would change if they were to use a
different propulsion system?

One question I do have is why can't they make H3 here? They are saying that
one ton of H3 would be worth several billion.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Keith Johnson wrote:

>
>
> Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I
> did in second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's
> Brain"), and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read
> about how cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution,
> and I'd read about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of
> using fusion power to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was
> that Trek ep where they said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion
> power, which Kirk said was even beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd
> stumbled on a major secret, I took pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the
> Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside was  a giant water tank. Sitting next
> to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem locomotive, was a big pile of
> cesium bricks--just sitting there.  Next to them were some crazy robot arms
> with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot extremities as depicted in old
> cartoons).  The robot hands--two of them--would take turns dumping cesium
> bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was a big A battery and
> wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one side of the tank
> by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for all the world a
> tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the electrons
> would shoot into space.
> Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem
> of both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was
> at what I thought I'd created!
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Mr. Worf" 
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
> reactor
>
>
>
> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
> will open with new ideas.
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Took them long enough.
>>
>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>> A shame he's passed on.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/uk-telegraph-supports-new-thorium.html>This
>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear fuel.
>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator at
>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) for
>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VyTCyizqrHs/THyDzmlalII/I3U/xWKRAKNWsYI/s1600/rubbiaenergyamp.gif>
>>>
>>>
>>> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
>>> Reddit<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.reddit.com>,
>>> orStumbleUpon<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.stumbleupon.com>.
>>> Thanks*
>>>
>>> *Supporting Advertising*
>>>
>>> *Business 
>>> Success*<http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.nextbigfuture.com/p/searchresults.html?PLUCKsearchTerm=Business%20Success&PLUCKwhichPage=relatedAdLinks>
>>>
>>>*How to Make Money*
>>> <http://www.feedblitz.com/t2.asp?/64651/17726256/0/http://www.nextbigfuture.com/p/searchresults.html

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-04 Thread Keith Johnson 
Somewhere in my old house in Fort Worth is a schematic of an ion drive I did in 
second grade, after watching an ep of "Star Trek" (had to be "Spock's Brain"), 
and reading about electrolytes in my encyclopedia set. I'd read about how 
cesium, when immersed in water, would produce ions in solution, and I'd read 
about theories for Magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), the idea of using fusion power 
to drive plasma as a source of motion. Then there was that Trek ep where they 
said the aliens who took Spock's brain used ion power, which Kirk said was even 
beyond Federation tech. So, sure that I'd stumbled on a major secret, I took 
pen to paper. I drew a cutaway of the Jupiter Two from Lost in Space. Inside 
was a giant water tank. Sitting next to the tank, like a coal scuttle on a stem 
locomotive, was a big pile of cesium bricks--just sitting there. Next to them 
were some crazy robot arms with gloved "hands" (think of all the robot 
extremities as depicted in old cartoons). The robot hands--two of them--would 
take turns dumping cesium bricks into the water tank. Attached to the tank was 
a big A battery and wiring so that the ions in solution could be driven to one 
side of the tank by the negative pole of the battery. I then had what was for 
all the world a tailpipe sticking out the side of the ship, through which the 
electrons would shoot into space. 
Of course, my eight year old self was certain I'd just solved the problem of 
both ion drive and FTL travel. To this day I remember how excited I was at what 
I thought I'd created! 

- Original Message - 
From: "Mr. Worf"  
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 4:02:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear 
reactor 






The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely move 
away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates will 
open with new ideas. 


On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter < [email protected] > 
wrote: 





Took them long enough. 

One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s. A 
shame he's passed on. 





On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf < [email protected] > wrote: 








Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor 
designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. This reactor was given a supportive 
article by the UK Telegraph. It has been extensively studied for over 15 years 
and is expected to have half the cost of existing light water reactors and burn 
up almost all of the nuclear fuel. The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has 
bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his 
design for a proton accelerator at its UK operation. They are raising 100 
million pounds ($150 million USD) for the next stage of an estimated 2 billion 
pound ($3 billion USD) project to develop the first commercial unit. 




If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on Reddit , or 
StumbleUpon . Thanks 

Supporting Advertising 

Business Success 
How to Make Money 
Executive Jobs 
Paid Surveys 


Thank You 










-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell 
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-04 Thread Martin Baxter 
Just gonna take a LOT of pushing at times, Mr Worf.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
> move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
> will open with new ideas.
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Took them long enough.
>>
>> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s.
>> A shame he's passed on.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>>> This
>>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear fuel.
>>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator at
>>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) for
>>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
>>> Reddit,
>>> orStumbleUpon.
>>> Thanks*
>>>
>>> *Supporting Advertising*
>>>
>>> *Business 
>>> Success*
>>>
>>>*How to Make Money*
>>> 
>>>
>>> *Executive Jobs 
>>> *
>>>
>>> *Paid 
>>> Surveys*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Thank You*
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell
>> wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
>>
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-04 Thread Mr. Worf 
The truly futuristic stuff is starting to appear. Once people completely
move away from the big government thinking on energy I think the flood gates
will open with new ideas.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

>
>
> Took them long enough.
>
> One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s. A
> shame he's passed on.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
>> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
>> This
>> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
>> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
>> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear fuel.
>> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
>> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator at
>> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) for
>> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
>> develop the first commercial unit.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
>> Reddit,
>> orStumbleUpon.
>> Thanks*
>>
>> *Supporting Advertising*
>>
>> *Business 
>> Success*
>>
>>*How to Make Money*
>> 
>>
>> *Executive Jobs 
>> *
>>
>> *Paid 
>> Surveys*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Thank You*
>>
>> 
>>  
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell
> wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
>
>
> 
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear reactor

2010-09-04 Thread Martin Baxter 
Took them long enough.

One of my college instructors had a similar thought back in the late 70s. A
shame he's passed on.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Mr. Worf  wrote:

>
>
> Here are details of the subcritical accelerator driven thorium nuclear
> reactor designed by Nobel Laureate Carlo Rubbia. 
> This
> reactor was given a supportive article by the UK Telegraph. It has been
> extensively studied for over 15 years and is expected to have half the cost
> of existing light water reactors and burn up almost all of the nuclear fuel.
> The Norwegian group Aker Solutions has bought Dr Rubbia’s patent for the
> thorium fuel-cycle, and is working on his design for a proton accelerator at
> its UK operation. They are raising 100 million pounds ($150 million USD) for
> the next stage of an estimated 2 billion pound ($3 billion USD) project to
> develop the first commercial unit.
>
>
> 
>
>
> *If you liked this article, please give it a quick review on 
> Reddit,
> orStumbleUpon.
> Thanks*
>
> *Supporting Advertising*
>
> *Business 
> Success*
>
>*How to Make Money*
> 
>
> *Executive Jobs 
> *
>
> *Paid 
> Surveys*
>
>
>
> *Thank You*
>
> 
>  
>
>  
>



-- 
"If all the world's a stage and we are merely players, who the bloody hell
wrote the script?" -- Charles E Grant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik