Re: [scots-l] Ballad question

2002-12-17 Thread David Kilpatrick


David Francis wrote:

David Kilpatrick wrote:


maybe the ballads really go back even further to the
Bronze Age, and ALL iron is 'metal clear' while those old bronze swords
are 'metal broon'...



It's an interesting thought, and maybe not so far fetched.  Take a look at
Alan Garner's essay (he of 'Red Shift', 'The Owl Service' etc) 'Oral history
and applied history in East Cheshire' (it's in his collection 'The Voice
that Thunders'). Here he proposes the view, based on deductions from place
names and topographical evidence in an archetypal 'Sleeping Warrior' story,
that the story itself probably has its origins in some of the earliest
communities in that part of the world - dated to the Bronze Age around 4,000
years ago.  The story is still current in oral tradition around Alderley
Edge.


As long as it's not the same as the sleeping Scotsman story... 
presumably it's a
warrior asleep until rewakened to save the world story?

I would have thought that was probably even older still and shares roots 
with all deist religion, and in turn with the fact of being born and 
having parents.

I used enjoy Garner's kids books (with small reservations, even as a 
kid) but haven't seen his other writing and must look.

David

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Re: [scots-l] Ballad question

2002-12-16 Thread Clifford Abrams
David,

Thanks very much for your interesting, thorough reply. Yes, there are
also a few references to brown swords.
 
'Metal free' or 'metal clear' refers to the difference between
naturally occurring free iron and iron refined from ore ('metal
brown') - or to the iron derived from different ores. Pyrites,
haematite and another ironstone ore (can't remember, I knew all this
once from my father) require different extraction processes and there
were very rare occurrences of free iron - maybe meteorites...

The same is true of good kitchen knives-- of which i have a couple.

Good swords did not rust(ditto armour) but went dark and stayed
sharp.


CliffA


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Re: [scots-l] Ballad question

2002-12-15 Thread David Kilpatrick


Clifford Abrams wrote:

In many texts, spears or other weapons are often shod with metal
'free'. Why free. I understand (from the late Tony Cuffe) that a
wee pen knife was really very likely a weapon knife-- which
people were much more likely to carry around in earlier days. (As an
aside, many paintings by Brughel and Bosch feature men of all classes
carrying these kserviceablervicable-lookidaggers daggars. They seem
like long bayonettes mostly.)

Is a similar transposition happening with the free thing? Thanks.



I think Tony was wrong, because we would see this tautological structure 
in early sources if it existed - and 'weapon knife' doesn't appear 
anywhere. Also, there are English versions of songs which use 'little'. 
A penknife was a necessary thing at the time the ballads were noted 
down, if not at the time they are often dated (illiteracy doesn't go 
with pen knives!). And I think they were quite different from a modern 
penknife - a long handle with a short blade of considerable sharpness 
needed for cutting a quill in one clean action. Probably as effective as 
a stiletto. Maybe even adapted for personal defense use by women - after 
all, the moment guns became available, most British women of any 
standing carried a gun personally (I believe what I hear on the Antiques 
Roadshow!), and I'm sure that they would always have carried a 
serviceable small knife before that.

'Metal free' or 'metal clear' refers to the difference between naturally 
occurring free iron and iron refined from ore ('metal brown') - or to 
the iron derived from different ores. Pyrites, haematite and another 
ironstone ore (can't remember, I knew all this once from my father) 
require different extraction processes and there were very rare 
occurrences of free iron - maybe meteorites. The results of working 
these ores 500 years ago were not unlike the differences between cast 
iron, wrought iron and common steel now. Good swords did not rust (ditto 
armour) but went dark and stayed sharp.

Whatever the processes involved - the ores and the smithing skills - the 
best weapons grade metal was superb stuff and has survived up to today. 
The ballads are just making the point that these were expensive, serious 
blades. Same way they labour descriptions of horse trappings, clothing 
etc. 'Young Waters' is a nice one - just to make the point that he's 
well turned out, his horse has to have golden graithes and silver shoes, 
and he had a golden cloak, etc.

Someone who knows something about metallurgy may be better able to 
explain why iron/steel could be free, clear, brown (but please note the 
Hugh the Graeme error in MacColl or the Corries songbook, or both - his 
sword was not of the 'the metal bent', or 'the metal burnt', but of 'the 
metal broon' in contrast to his other sword which is of the 'metal clear').

Deep thought - maybe the ballads really go back even further to the 
Bronze Age, and ALL iron is 'metal clear' while those old bronze swords 
are 'metal broon'...

David

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