Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
Hi Dan On 28 January 2011 07:24, Dan Shearer d...@shearer.org wrote: From the perception that Windows is free the line of reasoning follows that the bar for Linux is a lot higher, because Windows is compatible with everything currently in use. Thus Linux is introducing cost for no short-term functional gain. Can't speak for Councils, though I work for the SG I shouldn't comment on their purchasing policies, but my mum works for a Council down south so I'll throw some comments at you based on a conversation I had with some of her colleagues who work in her IT department. Windows isn't seen as free because of the inclusion with the PC, the machines are all rebuilt with a standard build. The software in accounted for by seats and volume licencing. Windows desktop software has a lot of traction if for no other reason than the investment the users have made in Excel spreadsheets and macros over the years. The IT guys like AD stuff, giving them a bewildering level of control. The main training expense would be not in training the users, if they can use Windows they can use Gnome or XFCE, but in the IT folks who would need a lot of retraining, and a shedload of work trying to recreate their network in Linux form, Linux and Unix are in there somewhere, but usually specific servers of tools with embedded Linux. Colin ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
Hi, Just to let you know, I could do with some help compiling all the data, as some is in email, some PDF's and some in an online spreadsheet (google gocs). Also, as someone said (sorry, don't have my usual mail client and can't remember, who, I'm running from pendrive), this could be creative accounting this is one problem I have faced with around half of the replies, there has been something along the lines of We cannot give you the price for M$ software alone, as our invoices include hardware, software and support. Which suggests that they don't actually keep the records very accurately. As fr the guy who said that only the IT staff would need re-trained, I have a figure, quoted from a councilor (in a related, but not identical incident) that retraining the technical support team (this is for schools) would cost in the tens of thousands., which, in my opinion, isn't too bad, considering the same council (different councilor) stated that M$ cost #600,000 per year. The first councilor also mentioned a *licensing* price of around #24 per device per annum in schools. If anyone wants to help, just ask, either way, I will try and get some details up here and on my website asap. Thanx, John Thomson. ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
hey As fr the guy who said that only the IT staff would need re-trained, I have a figure, quoted from a councilor (in a related, but not identical incident) that retraining the technical support team (this is for schools) would cost in the tens of thousands., That was me quoting. The bloke I spoke to reckoned that most folk in the office used Word Excel Email Client Web interface Specific applications, many of which were web based Since they had been using Office 2003, he thought most would adapt quickly to OpenOffice He thought Evolution would not be a hard adapt from Outlook Firefox wasn't too different from IE and some folk already had it And the application stuff, that would require some adaptation, but the majority of it was server based. There would be expenses in fixing some IE specific javascript. Since the big changes would be on the server side, he foresaw most of the training on IT staff and key users who could then travel around and help the transition Then he said though that being tied into the technology at the silly level (Excel mainly) would be a hell of a friction to deal with col ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
On Wednesday 26 January 2011 04:45:19 pm Marcel Hecko wrote: I was actually expecting this number to be much higher. Is this only software license costs which are accounted into the amount, or is this including support and mainetnance fees? It that a flat rate, or monthly/yearly cost? I would love to see other inputs/outcomes of the project you are mentioning. Marcel Because it makes it difficult to read. Please don't top post. I would have expected it to be higher too - based on an estimate for the OEM licence of £50 - getting a full set of supported commercial software, and client licences for print/file/email/webfiltering for £60 looks like a very good deal. I suspect there's some creative accounting going on here. C. ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 04:28:36PM +, John Thomson wrote: For the past 3 or so weeks, I have requested details on how much local councils all over the UK have been spending on software, compared to how many computers they use. That's a really interesting project. From my enquiries, it seems a lot of Scottish government purchasing is done on the basis that Windows comes free with the hardware, that is, buying a bare PC is possible but the cost reduction is minimal (as expressed to Scottish Government bodies, and then to me.) This is certainly a widespread perception. A lot of purchasing is not done centrally, although there are ways councils and other non-centralised bodies can take advantage of central purchasing. If you have located an expert on how IT purchases are handled across Scottish government I'd love to meet them! From the perception that Windows is free the line of reasoning follows that the bar for Linux is a lot higher, because Windows is compatible with everything currently in use. Thus Linux is introducing cost for no short-term functional gain. -- Dan Shearer d...@shearer.org ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
I was actually expecting this number to be much higher. Is this only software license costs which are accounted into the amount, or is this including support and mainetnance fees? It that a flat rate, or monthly/yearly cost? I would love to see other inputs/outcomes of the project you are mentioning. Marcel On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:28 PM, John Thomson m...@johnthomson.me.uk wrote: Hi, I'm new to this mailing list, but I just want to mention a project I am working on. For the past 3 or so weeks, I have requested details on how much local councils all over the UK have been spending on software, compared to how many computers they use. Just to let you know, I have roughly calculated that most of the councils are spending, in the region, of about £110, per computer. I was just wondering what your views are on this. Note, very few have tried any alternatives to Windows. -- Thanx, John Thomson. ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish -- -- This message is not intended to have contractual effect -- ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] Cost of M$ in councils.
On 26 January 2011 16:28, John Thomson m...@johnthomson.me.uk wrote: Hi, I'm new to this mailing list, but I just want to mention a project I am working on. For the past 3 or so weeks, I have requested details on how much local councils all over the UK have been spending on software, compared to how many computers they use. Just to let you know, I have roughly calculated that most of the councils are spending, in the region, of about £110, per computer. I was just wondering what your views are on this. Note, very few have tried any alternatives to Windows. -- Thanx, John Thomson. From your research would it be possible to determine how much these councils would save by using FOSS alternatives? With Westminster and Holyrood opening up to the use of FOSS, and times so hard, a few more figures might help persuade them. Cheers Keith ___ Scottish mailing list Scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
