Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] The quest for data

[Sameer Verma]

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:23 PM, James Cameron  wrote:
> Metrics can direct action.
>
> Unfortunately, in the absence of meaningful metrics, the meaningless
> metrics will also direct action.
>

True. In fact, the reliability of the whole thing is dependent on the
reliability of the generated data. For instance, if the time stamp is
corrupt, then so will be the analysis, unless the data are treated for
that bias.

> One of the assertions inherent in OLPC is that merely using a device
> can have an effect on a brain, regardless of what activities are used.

Brain, perhaps. I'm leaning more on the learning side ;-)

>
> In the data listed, I haven't seen any use of more fundamental
> measurements like how long a device is used for.  OLPC's builds
> have a power log.  This captures time spent using a device.

True. Activities do not report end times, or whether the frequency
count is for the number of times a "new" activity was started, or if
it was simply a resumption of the previous instance. Walter had
indicated that thre is some movement in this direction to gather end
times. The sugar-stats system does record end times. We still have an
assumption (to be addressed by the researcher) that x number of
seconds actually lead to a delta of y in learning. Usually we
establish correlation, and support a case for causality with proxy
observations.

>
> It is especially relevant for a device that might also be used in
> Gnome rather than Sugar.  Harvest seems to have arisen out of the
> availability of the Journal.
>

Yes, the methods that use the datastore as a source rely on the
Journal, but the sugar-stats system does not. I believe it collects in
GNOME as well.

The way I see it, there are four parts to this supply chain:
measurement, collection, analysis and report (see
http://www.educause.edu/ero/article/penetrating-fog-analytics-learning-and-education).

1) The data has to be generated at the source (Sugar activity or dbus)
and must be done with required granularity and reliability. So, for
instance, TurtleArt can record the type of blocks, or Maze can record
the number of turns. This will vary by activity. We also have to be
mindful of the reliability, for instance, of internal clock variation
for timestamps.

2) We need a way to collect data on an ongoing basis on the laptop.
This may be in the Journal datastore, or in the RRD file, as in the
case of sugar-stats. We then continue the collection either by
aggregating the data at the XS/XSCE and/or a central location (as with
the Harvest system) so that the data can be analyzed.

3) The analysis stage can be done with the raw data (basic statistics,
correlation, qualitative), or it can be aggregated (as with the
Jamaica CouchDB system doing basic stats) and made ready for
reporting. Some of this may be automated, but to go beyond "Powerpoint
pie charts", it's really on a case-by-case basis.

4) The reporting can be done either via visualization, and/or by
generating periodic reports. The reporting should be specific to the
person(s) looking at it. No magic there.

Now, of course, if the data at the source is corrupt, then it may
reflect in the report. There are ways to address missing data and
biases, but it would be better to have a reliable way to generate data
at the source.

> On the other hand, use of metrics tends towards standardised testing,
> with the ultimate implementation being an examination that must be
> completed each time before using a device for learning.  Imagine
> having to delay learning!

How the data will be used remains to be seen. I have not seen it being
used in any of the projects that I know of. If others have seen/done
so, it would help to hear from them. I know that in conversations and
presentations to decision makers, the usual sore point is "can you
show us what you have so far?" For Jamaica, we have used a basic
exploratory approach on the Journal data, corroborated with structured
 interviews with parents, teachers, etc. So, for instance, the data we
have shows a relatively large frequency of use of TuxMath (even with
different biases). However, we have qualitative evidence that supports
both usage of TuxMath and improvement in numeracy (standardized test).
We can support strong(er) correlation, but cannot really establish
causality. The three data points put together make for a compelling
case. As an aside, I did encounter a clever question in one of the
presentations: "What's constructivist about TuxMath?". That's a
discussion for another thread :-)

>
> I don't like the idea of standardised testing.  I've seen the damage
> that it does.  Sir Ken Robinson had a few things to say about that, in
> his talk Changing Education Paradigms.
>

It plays a role in the education-industrial complex, and it is
difficult to entirely walk way from it, but yes, YMMV.

cheers,
Sameer

> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarl

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[Adam Holt]

Thanks Sameer, fyi George's XO-4 should arrive by Tues.


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Sameer Verma  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:47 PM, George Hunt  wrote:
> > On our skype call Thursday, Jon suggested using the XO4 config file as a
> > base for getting all the needed kernel capability. And James suggested
> > looking at the upstream kernel conf.  In any case I'll need to
> understand,
> > and merge in, whatever special conig Rebeeh put in for the SOC in the
> Cubox.
> >
> > I won't have an XO4, until it arrives next week. (Adam agreed to send me
> > one, if I'd build it up to XSCE for Haiti later this month). So here
> comes a
> > request:
> >
> > Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at home,
> and
> > I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would love to get XSCE
> to
> > load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.
> >
>
> George,
> If you are close by, you can borrow mine until Adam's XO-4 arrives.
>
> Sameer
>
> > Do we need to start thinking about eSata interfaces. I happen to have an
> > eSata enclosure from Startech, and a eSata cable.  But I didn't find any
> > reference that looked like the kernel was recognizing an eSata
> interface. I
> > searched the config I'm using. There were "SATA" config lines which were
> not
> > enabled.
> >
> > Jon, what hardware have you been using? Maybe I can get you to email or
> post
> > your config file.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 12:00:43AM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
> >> > Right now XSCE server software does not load, because some of the
> >> > kernel networking userland (rtnetfilter) interfaces are not enabled.
> >>
> >> Speculation: the configuration changes between the upstream Linux
> >> kernel and the Fedora Linux kernel are what you may need to add.
> >> Looking at the kernel configuration (/boot/config*) of a Fedora kernel
> >> may give useful data.
> >>
> >> --
> >> James Cameron
> >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
>
> --
> 
> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ 
> http://unleashkids.org !
>
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[Sameer Verma]

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:47 PM, George Hunt  wrote:
> On our skype call Thursday, Jon suggested using the XO4 config file as a
> base for getting all the needed kernel capability. And James suggested
> looking at the upstream kernel conf.  In any case I'll need to understand,
> and merge in, whatever special conig Rebeeh put in for the SOC in the Cubox.
>
> I won't have an XO4, until it arrives next week. (Adam agreed to send me
> one, if I'd build it up to XSCE for Haiti later this month). So here comes a
> request:
>
> Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at home, and
> I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would love to get XSCE to
> load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.
>

George,
If you are close by, you can borrow mine until Adam's XO-4 arrives.

Sameer

> Do we need to start thinking about eSata interfaces. I happen to have an
> eSata enclosure from Startech, and a eSata cable.  But I didn't find any
> reference that looked like the kernel was recognizing an eSata interface. I
> searched the config I'm using. There were "SATA" config lines which were not
> enabled.
>
> Jon, what hardware have you been using? Maybe I can get you to email or post
> your config file.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 12:00:43AM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
>> > Right now XSCE server software does not load, because some of the
>> > kernel networking userland (rtnetfilter) interfaces are not enabled.
>>
>> Speculation: the configuration changes between the upstream Linux
>> kernel and the Fedora Linux kernel are what you may need to add.
>> Looking at the kernel configuration (/boot/config*) of a Fedora kernel
>> may give useful data.
>>
>> --
>> James Cameron
>> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[George Hunt]

Jon,

Do you have a github url that includes the changes that you have made to
3.10.17 -- which I assume you lifted from
http://git.freescale.com/git/cgit.cgi/imx/linux-2.6-imx.git/tag/?id=rel_imx_3.10.17_1.0.0_beta
.

Now that Tim is scheduled to get his Cubox's, it seems like we should be
aiming as directly as we can for the goal.  I could create the github
presence, and you could contribute deltas.  Which direction is easiest for
you?


On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:23 PM, George Hunt  wrote:

> Thanks James
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:06 PM, James Cameron  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 06:47:25PM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
>> > Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at
>> > home, and I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would
>> > love to get XSCE to load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.
>>
>> Link rather than mail.
>>
>>
>> http://dev.laptop.org/git/olpc-kernel/tree/arch/arm/configs/xo_4_defconfig?h=arm-3.5
>>
>> --
>> James Cameron
>> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
>>
>
>
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[George Hunt]

Thanks James



On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:06 PM, James Cameron  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 06:47:25PM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
> > Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at
> > home, and I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would
> > love to get XSCE to load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.
>
> Link rather than mail.
>
>
> http://dev.laptop.org/git/olpc-kernel/tree/arch/arm/configs/xo_4_defconfig?h=arm-3.5
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
>
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 06:47:25PM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
> Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at
> home, and I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would
> love to get XSCE to load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.

Link rather than mail.

http://dev.laptop.org/git/olpc-kernel/tree/arch/arm/configs/xo_4_defconfig?h=arm-3.5

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] Re: a kernel for our solidrun protos?

[George Hunt]

On our skype call Thursday, Jon suggested using the XO4 config file as a
base for getting all the needed kernel capability. And James suggested
looking at the upstream kernel conf.  In any case I'll need to understand,
and merge in, whatever special conig Rebeeh put in for the SOC in the Cubox.

I won't have an XO4, until it arrives next week. (Adam agreed to send me
one, if I'd build it up to XSCE for Haiti later this month). So here comes
a request:

Can I ask someone to email me the XO4 /boot/conf* file. I'm not at home,
and I didn't bring an ARM XO with me to California. I would love to get
XSCE to load, without erroring out, on a Cubox.

Do we need to start thinking about eSata interfaces. I happen to have an
eSata enclosure from Startech, and a eSata cable.  But I didn't find any
reference that looked like the kernel was recognizing an eSata interface. I
searched the config I'm using. There were "SATA" config lines which were
not enabled.

Jon, what hardware have you been using? Maybe I can get you to email or
post your config file.




On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 12:00:43AM -0500, George Hunt wrote:
> > Right now XSCE server software does not load, because some of the
> > kernel networking userland (rtnetfilter) interfaces are not enabled.
>
> Speculation: the configuration changes between the upstream Linux
> kernel and the Fedora Linux kernel are what you may need to add.
> Looking at the kernel configuration (/boot/config*) of a Fedora kernel
> may give useful data.
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
>
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] The quest for data

[Sameer Verma]

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 4:15 AM, Martin Abente
 wrote:
> Hello Sameer,
>
> I totally agree we should join efforts for a visualization solution, but,
> personally, my main concern is still a  basic one: what are the important
> questions we should be asking? And how can we answer these questions
> reliably? Even though most of us have experience in deployments and their
> needs, we are engineers, not educators, nor decision makers.
>

Agreed. It would be helpful to have a conversation on what the various
constituencies need (different from want) to see at their level. The
child, the parents/guardians, the teacher, the
principal/administrator, and educational bureaucracy. We should also
consider the needs of those of us who have to fundraise by showing
progress of ongoing effort.

> I am sure that most of our collection approaches cover pretty much the
> trivial stuff like: what are they using, when are they using it, how often
> they use it, and all kind of things that derive directly from journal
> metadata. Plus the extra insight that comes when considering different
> demographics

True. Basic frequency counts such as frequency of use of activities,
usage by time of day, day of week, scope of collaboration are a few
simple one. Comparison of one metric vs the other will need more
thinking. That's where we should talk to the constituents.

>
> But, If we could also work together on that (including the trivial
> questions), it will be a good step forward. Once we identify these questions
> and figure out how to answer them, it would be a lot easier to think about
> visualization techniques, etc.

If the visualization subsystem (underlying tech pieces) are common and
flexible, then we can start with a few basic templates, and make it
extensible, so we can all aggregate, collate, and correlate as needed.
I'll use an example that I'm familiar with. We looked at CouchDB for
two reasons: 1) It allows for sync over intermittent/on-off
connections to the Internet and 2) CouchDB has a "views" feature which
provides selective subsets of the data, and the "reduce" feature does
aggregates. The actual visual is done in Javascript. Here's the
example Leotis had at the OLPC SF summit
(http://108.171.173.65:8000/).
>
> What you guys think?
>

A great start for a great year ahead!

> Saludos,

cheers,
> tch.
Sameer
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel