Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 20:06, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Frederick Grose wrote: >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Specifications/Groups >> See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Groups > > Thanks for the links. I re-read the spec and mockups. Looks like a > fantastic start. > > Brief comments > > - For "closed groups managed by Moodle/XS", it would make things > easier for teacher if we could to read a URL from the group > description field, and show an icon that links there (opening > Browse.xo...) > > - The user management for closed groups already exists in Moodle (but > looks moodlish instead of Sugarish). This is in case Tomeu is lazy ;-) Yes, definitely I think that groups would be managed in the Moodle web interface, if that's what you meant. I'm right now focusing on salut, but will get to gabble soon and will ask for more details then. Thanks, Tomeu > cheers, > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Frederick Grose wrote: >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Specifications/Groups > See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Groups Thanks for the links. I re-read the spec and mockups. Looks like a fantastic start. Brief comments - For "closed groups managed by Moodle/XS", it would make things easier for teacher if we could to read a URL from the group description field, and show an icon that links there (opening Browse.xo...) - The user management for closed groups already exists in Moodle (but looks moodlish instead of Sugarish). This is in case Tomeu is lazy ;-) cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Frederick Grose wrote: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Eben Eliason > wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> >> Yeah, definitely. We did a lot of thinking on this topic way back >> when, so there is some documentation already describing a proposed >> model: >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Specifications/Groups >> >> We also have a first series of mockups of how this might look in the >> UI, though I'm not sure that those are posted anywhere, ... > > See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Proposals/Groups Yup, those are the ones! Thanks. Eben ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Yep - no prob for me. The GUI side probably needs a bit of extra >> thinking so that it avoids being specific to the backend works (moodle >> in this case)... > > I was thinking that Moodle would put contacts in groups in the server > side and Sugar would just use the standard Telepathy interfaces. Yep. Agreed, same here. What I was thinking about was the UI design... for example, just one very obvious case we have to deal with: it is a good idea to design the UI so that we have a metaphor to edit groups (create, add/remove users). This can work server-less or with XMPP/Moodle backends -- we have to define a "lowest common denominator" and aim to use just that. For the initial implementation we are discussing, I would avoid implementing the client-side editing, and go instead for something easy: just read the groups via Telepathy -> Gabble -> XMPP (which in turn is controlled by Moodle). But if we have a plan for the "full" interaction, we can start implementing the basics. Without looking at the long term UI, maybe we implement something and then... have to change the UI significantly in the "next stage". It's not a big deal... I just think it would be good to have a chat or two to define some of those "lowest common denominators" strategies, and some key "features". An example on the 'feature' side: one of the strongest requests from the field I have is something I don't think we ever thought about -- teachers want to set a mode in Moodle that forces all kids' XOs to only show _this_ group/course/classroom members. Not sure how that'd work but I get that request from several independent deployments. I probably need to think these ideas through, and throw them in the collective pot... if you're interested... cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 17:00, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Eben Eliason wrote: >> maybe we can start with a Moodle-only >> approach and later extend to a generic system that works with or >> without a server. > > Yep - no prob for me. The GUI side probably needs a bit of extra > thinking so that it avoids being specific to the backend works (moodle > in this case)... I was thinking that Moodle would put contacts in groups in the server side and Sugar would just use the standard Telepathy interfaces. In that way, whatever is done in the server side would work for students using Gnome and Empathy, and also other deployments could get creative on the server side without having to fork Sugar. Regards, Tomeu > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Eben Eliason wrote: > maybe we can start with a Moodle-only > approach and later extend to a generic system that works with or > without a server. Yep - no prob for me. The GUI side probably needs a bit of extra thinking so that it avoids being specific to the backend works (moodle in this case)... cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Caroline Meeks > wrote: >> would be a nice feature to eventually have to let the teacher narrow down >> the neighborhood based on a specific Moodle group, for a specific period of >> time. That is have students focus on only other students in their class >> right now. > > Yeah, I've thought of that, and heard/read this kind of request a few times. > > Once we are where Tomeu wants to take us, I think it'll make sense to > add something like what you describe, perhaps in the neighbourhood > view or in the 'friends' view. This has always been the intent of the "middle" view, which was designed as a "Groups" view (with a number of configurable filters for various groups a student might be a part of) and is currently just a "Friends" view. After adding further group support, I suspect "Friends" will just be one of the available groups. I know that improvements to Groups/Friends view have been no the table for upcoming releases, so maybe we can start with a Moodle-only approach and later extend to a generic system that works with or without a server. Eben > It's probably a mode that Moodle signals to the laptops. The data on > the Sugar side is the same, but the UI changes a bit to help focus. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > would be a nice feature to eventually have to let the teacher narrow down > the neighborhood based on a specific Moodle group, for a specific period of > time. That is have students focus on only other students in their class > right now. Yeah, I've thought of that, and heard/read this kind of request a few times. Once we are where Tomeu wants to take us, I think it'll make sense to add something like what you describe, perhaps in the neighbourhood view or in the 'friends' view. It's probably a mode that Moodle signals to the laptops. The data on the Sugar side is the same, but the UI changes a bit to help focus. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
I like your thinking around this. I do have one use case to think about, although probably not support yet. The GPA resorts its students a few times a day, even within the same grade level. There is one group of students for reading, another mix for math, and then another, perhaps with students from different grades after school. It would be a nice feature to eventually have to let the teacher narrow down the neighborhood based on a specific Moodle group, for a specific period of time. That is have students focus on only other students in their class right now. I don't think anyone is using Moodle and Sugar with this level of sophistication yet, but I think its a feature teachers may want as they become more powerful users. Maybe just think about how this use case can be supported in the future as part of any design decisions. On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso > wrote: > > based on a conversation in #sugar with Collabora's Rob and Sjoerd, > > would like to propose some changes to how we display contacts/buddies > > Good that you're thinking about this! > > > - In the neighborhood view, display all users in our roster: user > > roster + shared roster. The user roster will be composed by the > > Agreed -- and I think that this is mostly the case already. I also > think that (for users on the same server), user roster == friends. See > below... > > > contacts that we have added ourselves and, in the Salut case, the > > contacts accessible through Avahi. The shared roster will be assigned > > by the school administration (through Moodle?) and will typically > > correspond to our classroom or our grade. I think that Martin Langhoff > > has worked on the server side of this. > > > > - In the friends view, we display those contacts that we have > > "friended", being this a local concept. > > Is this "local concept" not fed to the "user roster" on the server > (for users known to this server)? IMHO, it should. > > > - In the neighborhood view, we can conduct a search that will span all > > contacts in the server (not only those in our rosters). The search > > will be done via the regular underlying mechanism, not through Gadget. > > That would be fantastic, with the following notes: > > - If I find someone, do I have to "make friend" so that user sticks > around? > > - Maybe the behaviour is nicer if it neighbourhood view also shows > "recently found" without the need to "friend" them explicitly. > > - Right now, searches have a UI behaviour that isn't a good fit for > this new feature -- you search amongst things already in your view. > Finding "new" things will need designing a new UI behaviour. > > cheers, > > > m > -- > martin.langh...@gmail.com > mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] scalability in the neighborhood view
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > based on a conversation in #sugar with Collabora's Rob and Sjoerd, > would like to propose some changes to how we display contacts/buddies Good that you're thinking about this! > - In the neighborhood view, display all users in our roster: user > roster + shared roster. The user roster will be composed by the Agreed -- and I think that this is mostly the case already. I also think that (for users on the same server), user roster == friends. See below... > contacts that we have added ourselves and, in the Salut case, the > contacts accessible through Avahi. The shared roster will be assigned > by the school administration (through Moodle?) and will typically > correspond to our classroom or our grade. I think that Martin Langhoff > has worked on the server side of this. > > - In the friends view, we display those contacts that we have > "friended", being this a local concept. Is this "local concept" not fed to the "user roster" on the server (for users known to this server)? IMHO, it should. > - In the neighborhood view, we can conduct a search that will span all > contacts in the server (not only those in our rosters). The search > will be done via the regular underlying mechanism, not through Gadget. That would be fantastic, with the following notes: - If I find someone, do I have to "make friend" so that user sticks around? - Maybe the behaviour is nicer if it neighbourhood view also shows "recently found" without the need to "friend" them explicitly. - Right now, searches have a UI behaviour that isn't a good fit for this new feature -- you search amongst things already in your view. Finding "new" things will need designing a new UI behaviour. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
