Morning Mike,
>> At 07:06 PM 9/10/2007, you wrote:
Your message shows thought, logic, and patience as well as understanding.
I read it two or three times and it concerned me to the point I
could not sleep. Maybe I felt guilt of my transgressions.
Many times I have thought, why don't these people stop, or go to the off
topic list. But they don't and soon I have to reply, adding fuel to the fire.
I want to share some feedback I've received privately. My aim is to
clarify, just a bit more, how I'm asking you all to help run the list.
As I read the message and thought about it later, I kept thinking,
"Something is Missing". Not from your message but from the complaints.
I am on another list that has more off topic messages than on topic
messages. One person complained and all the members stopped while a few
spoke up and agreed with the person complaining.
The list traffic dropped from 30 to 50 messages per day to maybe 5 or
10. Soon it picked bank up slowly to the original state.
The point is, ask one question about the main purpose of that list, and
you get 50 to 100 replies from some of the best in the world.
This group has a get together each year at a ranch in Texas. People fly in
from all over the USA. One Large happy family.
If you're in a hurry, then skip past the quoted text and please read my
comments below.
I hope no one skipped them.
I wonder what per cent of the list members feel this way about off topic
messages.
I went thru all the messages for Sept and August.
The number of messages about CS in Sept has been few. Only one from a
beginner I think.
In August there were more early in the month. Many had subjects that
appeared to be about CS, but were about other things instead.
Many members are about as bad relative to changing the subject as they are
about trimming their post.
The other day I received this eloquent perspective on how we're doing
right now...
Mike, I seldom disagree with you, however, you called this block
below "Eloquent Perspective". Maybe I need to identify the term.
The block below is what kept me awake.
This person concealed some truth from you and the list as I will proceed to
prove.
> Dear Mike
> I am reluctantly but seriously considering unsubbing from your list.
As I pointed out, ........ he is the minority not the majority.
If all the off topic messages were gone, the list would have been
DEAD in August and September.
Many would have likely unsubed if it stayed that dead.
> There is just too much irrelevant traffic. Too much arrogance,
> rudeness, pontification and hot air with a very occasional gem of
mild > interest. If there were more gems or if this was mostly health
and healing then ok i would put up with the garbage.
I don't think he did a message count. Not that much arrogance.
He does not know when we are kidding and does not know who of us know the
other people and what we feel comfortable in saying.
It costs me to download and, because I'm searching for cs knowledge,
I wonder what he wanted to know ? He did not ask me, Simon, Dan or
Charles, or ODE or Daddybob or the list in the month and one half. This
is part of his misrepresentation of the facts and his concealment of his
real problems.
it takes me a > long time to read through and delete. I'm deleting about
95% of the CS list now.
Now, a bit of truth emerges, How interesting. "A long time".
I figured as much. An inbox with all kind of messages.
I just made a new folder on the CS_notes for his benefit and for
others. Two files, identical. I even formatted one in word because it is
easier to read than a text file.
I am sure others will help me add to this folder "Mailhelp".
I would guess he is spending 30 mniutes to one hour to do what he should do
in 3 to 5 minutes at most.
I can delete 1000 messages in a few seconds.
My IN box has over 1000 messages and my outbox has over 7000.
> I could filter out Wayne and Simon and now maybe John Plumrige but I
still have to download them and pay for that.
I made the Honor Roll. He forgot one or two. Charles and others.
I think he is discriminating, Several others to the same thing.
This paying for download bytes is old, primitive and out of date.
He must be out of the USA or in a very remote area. Would be interested in
cost per byte so I can figure out the cost of the messages.
If this cost, taxes his budget, I will not comment other than to say,
I feel sympathy for him in several respects.
Anyway it is not a simple as that, all of your contributors have some
value, just that lately it is buried in a prolific heap of [messages that
don't]have much to do with your cs core; I think.
I have not seen many questions in the last month and one half.
Where did they go ?
Possibly many beginners are also beginners in managing mail and cannot wade
thru the messages. How unfortunate ?
Of course many beginners can barely ask a good question is why Dan and I
added the file collection on my web site.
We did not plan for it to eliminate all beginner questions, just some of
them, and to provide better questions also.
Another member replied to one of my recent coaching posts this way:
> Dear Mike,
> Thank you!! I almost unsubscribed today, because I'm tired of
> the same thing, by the same people, over and over..... Again, I >>hope
others follow your advice.
Again, these people are in the minority, a very small minority and
think they can jump in here and tell us what to do.
Only You can do that.
Look at what happened to John !
But he is smart enough that he joined the club almost immediately.
The same thing happened on the other list I referenced.
Both are my favorite list. I spend more time on these than I do on my own
list.
I checked, and the smallest number of posts we've had any day in the last
week is 60, and the most was 140, with the average closer to 120 than to
60!! I didn't bother to calculate the percentage that were CS-related.
Yes, too many it seems. I had a hard time scrolling thru and finding the
few CS messages.
There were some, and nobody's question was neglected, but...
Okay, so you've gotten the idea that religion and politics and
similarly irreconcilable topics are verboten.
Yes, ......... And dog training too. Darn !
You understand and expect that I will sometimes explicitly ask for
topics to be ended or moved. Great!
Yes, ....... I wish everyone on the main list was on the off topic list.
What's missing right now is the self-discipline to end or move more
of those topics *without* waiting for me to ask you to!! <grin>
Yes, .........
Seriously, I depend on all of you to do that.
Remember, the rules state that non-CS-related topics should be handled
briefly, so that "basic information is given and important resources
identified."
Clear and simple. We will try our best to do this
They also say, "A modest amount of humor, chit-chat, friendly banter and
encouragement is condoned... Such threads should be brief, seldom more
than a small handful of messages."
Agree.
How can you judge when it's time??
If it's going to be your second or third post about typing class, then
maybe it IS time.
Yes, I think I only made one. I reached quota I guess.
Count your messages. If you're posting 10, 15, or 20 in a single day,
you really need to be more selective about which posts to reply to.
True, I agree. I have been busy working, good thing for that.
Do you remember back when John first joined and critiqued the group? One
of the points he made then is entirely valid: One line or one
word responses are not generally helpful!
True, and those do not usually trim the posts.
>>One member reminded me last week that he's on web-tv, an excruciatingly
slow service that can take 30 seconds to load a single message.
That sure seems like a disaster.
Recently there have been few questions about how to manage mail. The
lack of knowledge in this area continues to amaze me.
I bet that if you checked every message ( complaint ) you have received
over the years, no one ever complained that knew how to manage their mail.
I considered not replying to your message. It was only the fact that I
felt the concealment of some facts and reasons by the complaining people
should be exposed and pointed out.
The new folder is mail help under CS_notes. Only two files that are
identical other than the format.
http://www.fugitt.com/cs_notes/Mailhelp/
or http://www.fugitt.com/cs_notes/
These do not offer much help but maybe an idea or two.
Wayne
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