Re: [Simh] VAXELN, rtVAX-1000, WTC, time
Not really. :-) This gives the technical explanation on how the system works. Bottom line is that you have a TOY clock, and it continues working even with power off. The battery is just the power source of the TOY when main power is off. What is needed to be understood is how the TODR register works. And to clarify things more to the OP, the TOY is then responsible for updating the TODR. So TODR should always continue counting even if power is off. So if you always see low values, it would seem that it gets reset at some point. The TODR have no further meaning. It is just a free running counter incrementing every 10 ms. It's up to the OS to do something clever with it. I don't remember exactly how VMS or anything else use it, but it is used in combination with some information stored in the file system to figure out what the current time is at boot. Johnny On 2018-12-15 22:25, Wilm Boerhout wrote: The few actual reads of the TODR during ELN's execution are returning low values (since nothing actually set the clock yet). Do you get the same result if you don't attach the CLK device? If the result is the same, then it would seem that ELN doesn't care to use the hardware clock for much of anything. Maybe there is some setting within ELN that could influence more direct use of the clock. - Mark This from the rtVAX 1000 System User's Guide (1985) When the system is off, the battery backup unit (BBU) (internal) provides power to the time-of-year (TOY) clock chip on the KA620-A. The code for the user's language is stored in RAM on this chip and is lost if the BBU fails. For more information, see the rtVAX KA620A CPU Module User's Guide That guide is not to be found on line. So what we're really looking for, is a battery. :-) ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] VAXELN, rtVAX-1000, WTC, time
The few actual reads of the TODR during ELN's execution are returning low values (since nothing actually set the clock yet). Do you get the same result if you don't attach the CLK device? If the result is the same, then it would seem that ELN doesn't care to use the hardware clock for much of anything. Maybe there is some setting within ELN that could influence more direct use of the clock. - Mark This from the rtVAX 1000 System User's Guide (1985) When the system is off, the battery backup unit (BBU) (internal) provides power to the time-of-year (TOY) clock chip on the KA620-A. The code for the user's language is stored in RAM on this chip and is lost if the BBU fails. For more information, see the rtVAX KA620A CPU Module User's Guide That guide is not to be found on line. So what we're really looking for, is a battery. :-) ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] VAXELN, rtVAX-1000, WTC, time
Mark Pizzolato schreef op 15-12-2018 om 21:42: On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Wilm Boerhout wrote: [...] DBG(1041144)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B84 This line ^^^ and all above it are done by the MicroVAX 3900 boot ROM and have nothing to do with ELN. DBG(7056415)> CLK REG: todr_rd() - TODR=0x132A4 DBG(7056419)> same as above (1 time) DBG(9598293)> CLK REG: todr_rd() - TODR=0x133F0 DBG(11998428)> CLK REG: todr_rd() - TODR=0x13526 DBG(14398563)> CLK REG: todr_rd() - TODR=0x1365C Simulation stopped, PC: 800066EE (BEQL 800066EA) sim> quit Goodbye NVR: writing buffer to file CLK: writing buffer to file Eth: closed tap0 The few actual reads of the TODR during ELN's execution are returning low values (since nothing actually set the clock yet). Do you get the same result if you don't attach the CLK device? If the result is the same, then it would seem that ELN doesn't care to use the hardware clock for much of anything. Maybe there is some setting within ELN that could influence more direct use of the clock. - Mark Thanks Mark for clatifying this. That might well be the case. That is why I'm interested how a real rtVAX preserves its clock. Maybe it didn't, and you had to enter the right time on every boot. In which case simh would be right. These systems would sometimes run for years. Documentation is scarce, however. I havesome leads th real rtVAX-systems, but not very soon. Anyway, with MV3900 the behaviour doesn't change when I do not attach the CLK device. System time starts at VMS Zero. Let's let it rest. I will go out on this thing called The Internet and look better for docs. *Wilm* ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] VAXELN, rtVAX-1000, WTC, time
Mark Pizzolato schreef op 15-12-2018 om 19:10: Hi Wilm, On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote: I'm trying to get my head around VAXELN and system time. Before I cry "Wolf" and accuse any innocent program(mer) of instruction obstruction, I want to know how things are supposed to work here (i.e. as on a real rtVAX with VAXELN) I have built a VAXELN system image and can download this into the simh rtVAX. Whatever simh setting I use, the VAXELN system clock always starts at 0, starting time after boot on 17-NOV-1858. I can set the time manually, but it is not preserved across boot. Should it be? simh ini file: echo rtVAX-1000 set CPU diag=MIN 16M idle=ELN conhalt autoboot set WTC time=STD set DZ disable set LPT disable set RL disable set TS disable set TQ disable att -e NVR /opt/ka620.nvr set RQ0 rd54 att -e RQ0 /vdisk/VAXELN.vdisk set XQ type=DEQNA mac=08:00:2B:13:01:92 att XQ TAP:tap0 set DEBUG /opt/ka620.debug set WTC DEBUG boot contents of ka620.debug after booting and shutdown (well, no shutdown on ELN, so ctrl/E) /opt/rtvax1000.ini-20> set DEBUG /opt/ka620.debug Debug output to "/opt/ka620.debug" Debug output to "/opt/ka620.debug" at Sat Dec 15 11:57:42 2018 rtVAX1000 (KA620) simulator V4.0-0 Current git commit id: c2b45a26 /opt/rtvax1000.ini-23> boot Loading boot code from internal ka620.bin DBG(146257)> WTC REG: wtc_rd(pa=0x200B801A [CSRD], data=0x80) VALID1 Simulation stopped, PC: 800066EA (TSTL 8900) sim> quit Goodbye NVR: writing buffer to file Eth: closed tap0 From the debug log it is clear that, although the CSRD register was read and the time it contained was indicated as being VALID, no other references were made by the running system to anything that contained time data so it isn't surprising that the time is 0. Try running ELN with the MicroVAX3900 simulator and see if you get different behavior. - Mark Overall behaviour is the same with the MicroVAX 3900. After booting ELN, time is "VMS Zero", even after setting it to today, then quitting and restarting simh. MV3900 ini file: set CPU 16M idle=ELN conhalt noautoboot att -e CLK /opt/ka655.toy set DZ disable set LPT disable set RL disable set TS disable set TQ disable att -e NVR /opt/ka655.nvr set XQ type=DEQNA mac=08:00:2B:13:01:92 att XQ TAP:tap0 set DEBUG /opt/ka655.debug set CLK debug boot DEBUG output: root@raspi2-old ~ # cat /opt/ka655.debug /opt/pi3k9.ini-19> set DEBUG /opt/ka655.debug Debug output to "/opt/ka655.debug" Debug output to "/opt/ka655.debug" at Sat Dec 15 21:00:59 2018 MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Current git commit id: c2b45a26 /opt/pi3k9.ini-22> boot Loading boot code from internal ka655x.bin DBG(34)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5A39 DBG(961145)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6A DBG(962890)> same as above (436 times) DBG(962894)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6B DBG(966023)> same as above (781 times) DBG(966027)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6C DBG(969151)> same as above (781 times) DBG(969155)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6D DBG(972281)> same as above (781 times) DBG(972285)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6E DBG(975413)> same as above (782 times) DBG(975417)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B6F DBG(978541)> same as above (781 times) DBG(978545)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B70 DBG(981673)> same as above (782 times) DBG(981677)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B71 DBG(984801)> same as above (781 times) DBG(984805)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B72 DBG(987933)> same as above (782 times) DBG(987937)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B73 DBG(991061)> same as above (781 times) DBG(991065)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B74 DBG(994193)> same as above (782 times) DBG(994197)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B75 DBG(997321)> same as above (781 times) DBG(997325)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B76 DBG(1000453)> same as above (782 times) DBG(1000457)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B77 DBG(1003581)> same as above (775 times) DBG(1003585)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B78 DBG(1006710)> same as above (780 times) DBG(1006714)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B79 DBG(1009842)> same as above (782 times) DBG(1009846)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7A DBG(1012972)> same as above (781 times) DBG(1012976)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7B DBG(1016100)> same as above (781 times) DBG(1016104)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7C DBG(1019232)> same as above (782 times) DBG(1019236)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7D DBG(1022360)> same as above (781 times) DBG(1022364)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7E DBG(1025492)> same as above (782 times) DBG(1025496)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B7F DBG(1028620)> same as above (781 times) DBG(1028624)> CLK REG: todr_rd(ROM) - TODR=0xC3AA5B80 DBG(1031752)> same as above (782 times) DBG(1031756)> CLK REG:
Re: [Simh] VAXELN, rtVAX-1000, WTC, time
Hi Wilm, On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > I'm trying to get my head around VAXELN and system time. > > Before I cry "Wolf" and accuse any innocent program(mer) of instruction > obstruction, I want to know how things are supposed to work here (i.e. > as on a real rtVAX with VAXELN) > > I have built a VAXELN system image and can download this into the simh > rtVAX. Whatever simh setting I use, the VAXELN system clock always > starts at 0, starting time after boot on 17-NOV-1858. I can set the time > manually, but it is not preserved across boot. Should it be? > > simh ini file: > > echo rtVAX-1000 > > set CPU diag=MIN 16M idle=ELN conhalt autoboot > set WTC time=STD > > set DZ disable > set LPT disable > set RL disable > set TS disable > set TQ disable > > att -e NVR /opt/ka620.nvr > > set RQ0 rd54 > att -e RQ0 /vdisk/VAXELN.vdisk > > set XQ type=DEQNA mac=08:00:2B:13:01:92 > att XQ TAP:tap0 > > set DEBUG /opt/ka620.debug > set WTC DEBUG > > boot > > contents of ka620.debug after booting and shutdown (well, no shutdown on > ELN, so ctrl/E) > > /opt/rtvax1000.ini-20> set DEBUG /opt/ka620.debug > Debug output to "/opt/ka620.debug" > Debug output to "/opt/ka620.debug" at Sat Dec 15 11:57:42 2018 > rtVAX1000 (KA620) simulator V4.0-0 Current git commit id: c2b45a26 > /opt/rtvax1000.ini-23> boot > Loading boot code from internal ka620.bin > DBG(146257)> WTC REG: wtc_rd(pa=0x200B801A [CSRD], data=0x80) VALID1 > > Simulation stopped, PC: 800066EA (TSTL 8900) > sim> quit > Goodbye > NVR: writing buffer to file > Eth: closed tap0 From the debug log it is clear that, although the CSRD register was read and the time it contained was indicated as being VALID, no other references were made by the running system to anything that contained time data so it isn't surprising that the time is 0. Try running ELN with the MicroVAX3900 simulator and see if you get different behavior. - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
