Re: CVS commit: src

2018-10-23 Thread Rin Okuyama

On 2018/10/23 2:33, Taylor R Campbell wrote:

Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 22:28:35 +0900
From: Rin Okuyama 

I'm really disappointed by this. I do not like the way you got things
going (and also I really do not like to write a message like this).

I asked you to discuss further before rashly committing it. Didn't I?
People actually provided some useful proposals to improve your draft.
However, instead of finding a point of agreement, you shutted down
discussion one-sidedly:

https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-toolchain/2018/10/10/msg003307.html


Hi, Rin!

There are some good suggestions in that thread, and parts of the
thread became a bit of a bike shed.  We don't have a formal review
process for evolving changes before merging them into HEAD (though we
may be moving toward one with hg).

Perhaps it would have been better to see another iteration or two of
drafts, but (a) bike shed discussions can be long and tedious and can
discourage contributions, and (b) we can always revise README.md as a
living document -- no need to revert altogether when we can just edit
it to improve it.


Well, it makes sense on one hand. But, on the other hand, your argument
can be very dangerous if it is abused; I really hate an attitude like
"Oh, discussion is falling into a bike shed! Let's commit it to shut them
up!" Of course, I do understand you are not a person to do such a thing.
However, I believe that we must prove it, we do not behave like that, by
our daily actions. Otherwise, the community will break up. This is why
I'm writing this sequence of unpleasant messages which must "discourage"
everyone --- I am really sorry for it.


So, what would you like to see improved in the document?

- We should definitely mention the relation of the mirror on Github to
   the master version in CVS.

- We can pick a standard style for the capitalization of example
   architecture names, or pick a different selection of them that
   doesn't make capitalization difficult, or change all of them.

- We can tweak the suggested build.sh incantation, and expand on what
   the parts of it mean.  Personally I use `../obj.amd64' instead of
   `~/obj'.


Yes, we must explain the relation between CVS master and GitHub mirror,
at least. Others are minor problems although I feel it better to be
consistent with our existing documents. For example, architecture
names in http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/ are not capitalized at all.

rin

P.S.
Maya, why don't you express your opinion in a public ML instead of
sending a private massage to me? Rather, let us get back to technical
discussions...


Re: CVS commit: src

2018-10-23 Thread Taylor R Campbell
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 22:05:27 +0900
> From: Rin Okuyama 
> 
> On 2018/10/23 2:33, Taylor R Campbell wrote:
> > Perhaps it would have been better to see another iteration or two of
> > drafts, but (a) bike shed discussions can be long and tedious and can
> > discourage contributions, and (b) we can always revise README.md as a
> > living document -- no need to revert altogether when we can just edit
> > it to improve it.
> 
> Well, it makes sense on one hand. But, on the other hand, your argument
> can be very dangerous if it is abused; I really hate an attitude like
> "Oh, discussion is falling into a bike shed! Let's commit it to shut them
> up!" Of course, I do understand you are not a person to do such a thing.

You make a good point -- it would be bad form to sneak unwelcome
changes in under the pretense of avoiding bike sheds.  This case seems
OK to me because, overall, I felt the response on tech-toolchain was
positive -- e.g.,

https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-toolchain/2018/10/10/msg003296.html
https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-toolchain/2018/10/10/msg003303.html

The reservations in the tech-toolchain thread were about details,
choices of wording, &c., which can always be improved in a living
document.

> Yes, we must explain the relation between CVS master and GitHub mirror,
> at least. Others are minor problems although I feel it better to be
> consistent with our existing documents. For example, architecture
> names in http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/ are not capitalized at all.

I tweaked the document a bit to just copy the opening paragraph from
netbsd.org, and to make a link to the ports page.  If you or maya
don't like it that way, feel free to put back the particular
architecture names.

(If anyone wants to put it back, for the particular names, I think we
should probably say either (e.g.)  `AArch64', `VAX', and `Motorola
68k', or `aarch64', `vax', and `m68k', depending on whether we want to
emphasize the branding or the NetBSD code name for each thing.)

Feel free to suggest more changes -- it need not be perfect before it
can serve a useful purpose, as a living document.


Re: CVS commit: src

2018-10-23 Thread coypu
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:05:27PM +0900, Rin Okuyama wrote:
> Well, it makes sense on one hand. But, on the other hand, your argument
> can be very dangerous if it is abused; I really hate an attitude like
> "Oh, discussion is falling into a bike shed! Let's commit it to shut them
> up!" Of course, I do understand you are not a person to do such a thing.
> However, I believe that we must prove it, we do not behave like that, by
> our daily actions. Otherwise, the community will break up. This is why
> I'm writing this sequence of unpleasant messages which must "discourage"
> everyone --- I am really sorry for it.

I thought there were no big objections to it, as kamil stated something
that I read as a withdrawal of his more fundamental objection to
markdown & preferring a different style of document, the other complaint
was really small (arm64->aarch64) so I changed it without posting a
second revision.

> Yes, we must explain the relation between CVS master and GitHub mirror,
> at least. Others are minor problems although I feel it better to be
> consistent with our existing documents. For example, architecture
> names in http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/ are not capitalized at all.

Sure.

> Maya, why don't you express your opinion in a public ML instead of
> sending a private massage to me? Rather, let us get back to technical
> discussions...

I've had multiple complaints about mentioning details of non-public
conversations to a wide audience.
Considering it's also the only conduct rule netbsd has, I should
probably be extra careful about it.


Re: CVS commit: src/sys/dev

2018-10-23 Thread Sevan Janiyan
On 22/10/2018 21:13, Jaromir Dolecek wrote:
> designed to primarily fix kern/52614, but might also help with kern/47041
> and kern/53183

For kern/53183, I've had my X60s running for the last 4 hours with a
fresh install of i386 build from 201810230010Z.
So far it's very promising, I've had parallel checkouts and update of
src,pkgsrc,xsrc running without issue. I am also now able to switch
wapbl on and off on the the root filesystem without the system seizing
up whilst doing I/O.

I will continue to test for another week and see it goes as well as test
on the G3 iBook which I also experienced the issue on. Initial
impression is promising, thank you so much for working on this.



Sevan