Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:45:27 -0400 Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Should we add the MIT license to our benchmarks repo as well? I'm fine with it, although is there an issue with changing it? I know that the code has no history and thus doesn't strictly need to use the PSF license, but IANAL. Well there's no license right now, which makes it non-open source software :) And I noticed you added the MIT license, so now we are license-compatible. Let the wholesale copying begin! =) -Brett Regards Antoine. -- Software development and contracting: http://pro.pitrou.net ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Done. PyPy benchmarks are MIT Thanks for clearing that up. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Alex Gaynor alex.gay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Antoine's right on this one - just use and redistribute the upstream components under their existing licenses. CPython itself is different because the PSF has chosen to reserve relicensing privileges for that, which requires the extra permissions granted in the contributor agreement. But I'm talking about the benchmarks themselves, not the wholesale inclusion of Mako, etc. (which I am not worried about since the code in the dependencies is not edited). Can we move the PyPy benchmarks themselves (e.g. bm_mako.py that PyPy has) over to the PSF benchmarks without getting contributor agreements. The PyPy team need to put a clear license notice (similar to the one in the main pypy repo) on their benchmarks repo. But yes, I believe you're right that copying that code as it stands would technically be a copyright violation, even if the PyPy team intend for it to be allowed. If you're really concerned, check with Van first, but otherwise I'd just file a bug with the PyPy folks requesting that they clarify the licensing by adding a LICENSE file and in the meantime assume they intended for it to be covered by the MIT license, just like PyPy itself. The PSF license is necessary for CPython because of the long and complicated history of that code base. We can use simpler licenses for other stuff (like the benchmark suite) and just run with license in = license out rather than preserving the right for the PSF to change the license. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed First, I believe all the unalden swallow stuff (including the runner) is under the PSF licence, though you'd have to check the repo for a license file or bug Jeffrey and Collin. Someone (fijal) will add an MIT license for our half of the repo. Alex Done. PyPy benchmarks are MIT Great! Then I'm happy with moving PyPy benchmarks over wholesale. Are there any benchmarks that are *really* good and are thus a priority to move, or any that are just flat-out bad and I shouldn't bother moviing? ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Alex Gaynor alex.gay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Antoine's right on this one - just use and redistribute the upstream components under their existing licenses. CPython itself is different because the PSF has chosen to reserve relicensing privileges for that, which requires the extra permissions granted in the contributor agreement. But I'm talking about the benchmarks themselves, not the wholesale inclusion of Mako, etc. (which I am not worried about since the code in the dependencies is not edited). Can we move the PyPy benchmarks themselves (e.g. bm_mako.py that PyPy has) over to the PSF benchmarks without getting contributor agreements. The PyPy team need to put a clear license notice (similar to the one in the main pypy repo) on their benchmarks repo. But yes, I believe you're right that copying that code as it stands would technically be a copyright violation, even if the PyPy team intend for it to be allowed. If you're really concerned, check with Van first, but otherwise I'd just file a bug with the PyPy folks requesting that they clarify the licensing by adding a LICENSE file and in the meantime assume they intended for it to be covered by the MIT license, just like PyPy itself. The PSF license is necessary for CPython because of the long and complicated history of that code base. We can use simpler licenses for other stuff (like the benchmark suite) and just run with license in = license out rather than preserving the right for the PSF to change the license. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed First, I believe all the unalden swallow stuff (including the runner) is under the PSF licence, though you'd have to check the repo for a license file or bug Jeffrey and Collin. Someone (fijal) will add an MIT license for our half of the repo. Alex Done. PyPy benchmarks are MIT Great! Then I'm happy with moving PyPy benchmarks over wholesale. Are there any benchmarks that are *really* good and are thus a priority to move, or any that are just flat-out bad and I shouldn't bother moviing? Note that not all benchmarks run nightly. twisted_accept for example run out of TCP connections. benchmarks.py is your helper. We improved the US runner qutie significantly (the main runner.py file), mostly by improving reporting. So it can save a .json file or upload stuff to a codespeed instance. Other than that, they all measure something. It's really up to you to decide which ones measure something significant. Of course for our purposes benchmarks which require large libs are more interesting than others, but they all do something interesting. We removed those that we consider completely uninteresting. ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Should we add the MIT license to our benchmarks repo as well? I'm fine with it, although is there an issue with changing it? I know that the code has no history and thus doesn't strictly need to use the PSF license, but IANAL. -Brett cheers Antoine. On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:16:34 -0400 Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Alex Gaynor alex.gay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Antoine's right on this one - just use and redistribute the upstream components under their existing licenses. CPython itself is different because the PSF has chosen to reserve relicensing privileges for that, which requires the extra permissions granted in the contributor agreement. But I'm talking about the benchmarks themselves, not the wholesale inclusion of Mako, etc. (which I am not worried about since the code in the dependencies is not edited). Can we move the PyPy benchmarks themselves (e.g. bm_mako.py that PyPy has) over to the PSF benchmarks without getting contributor agreements. The PyPy team need to put a clear license notice (similar to the one in the main pypy repo) on their benchmarks repo. But yes, I believe you're right that copying that code as it stands would technically be a copyright violation, even if the PyPy team intend for it to be allowed. If you're really concerned, check with Van first, but otherwise I'd just file a bug with the PyPy folks requesting that they clarify the licensing by adding a LICENSE file and in the meantime assume they intended for it to be covered by the MIT license, just like PyPy itself. The PSF license is necessary for CPython because of the long and complicated history of that code base. We can use simpler licenses for other stuff (like the benchmark suite) and just run with license in = license out rather than preserving the right for the PSF to change the license. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed First, I believe all the unalden swallow stuff (including the runner) is under the PSF licence, though you'd have to check the repo for a license file or bug Jeffrey and Collin. Someone (fijal) will add an MIT license for our half of the repo. Alex Done. PyPy benchmarks are MIT Great! Then I'm happy with moving PyPy benchmarks over wholesale. Are there any benchmarks that are *really* good and are thus a priority to move, or any that are just flat-out bad and I shouldn't bother moviing? -- Software development and contracting: http://pro.pitrou.net ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Jul 24, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:42:15 -0700 Alex Gaynor alex.gay...@gmail.com wrote: PyPy benchmark suite contains stuff from twisted, sympy, mako, tons of other libraries. I doubt we can get everyone to sign the contributor agreement. You don't need every individual contributor. Each of those projects has a copyright holding entity (the DSF, the TSF, etc.), that entity can give the PSF permission. Twisted doesn't have a copyright holding entity, and I doubt many other projects do. Mako certainly doesn't. -- Philip Jenvey ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
Re: [Speed] merging PyPy and Python benchmark suite
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Alex Gaynor alex.gay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Armin Rigo ar...@tunes.org wrote: Hi Brett, On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: That's what I'm trying to establish; how much have they diverged and if I'm looking in the proper place. bm_mako.py is not from Unladen Swallow; that's why it is in pypy/benchmarks/own/. In case of doubts, check it in the history of Hg. The PyPy version was added from virhilo, which seems to be the name of his author, on 2010-12-21, and was not changed at all since then. OK. Maciej has always told me that a problem with the Unladen benchmarks was that some of them had artificial loop unrolling, etc., so I had assumed you had simply fixed those instances instead of creating entirely new benchmarks. No we did not use those benchmarks. Those were mostly completely artificial microbenchmarks (call, call_method etc.). We decided we're not really that interested in microbenchmarks. Hg tells me that there was no change at all in the 'unladen_swallow' subdirectory, apart from 'unladen_swallow/perf.py' and adding some __init__.py somewhere. So at least these benchmarks did not receive any pypy-specific adapatations. If there are divergences, they come from changes done to the unladen-swallow benchmark suite after PyPy copied it on 2010-01-15. I know that directory wasn't changed, but I also noticed that some benchmarks had the same name, which is why I thought they were forked versions of the same-named Unladen benchmarks. Not if they're in own/ directory. OK, good to know. I realized I can't copy code wholesale from PyPy's benchmark suite as I don't know the code's history and thus if the contributor signed Python's contributor agreement. Can the people who are familiar with the code help move benchmarks over where the copyright isn't in question? I can at least try to improve the Python 3 situation by doing things like pulling in Vinay's py3k port of Django, etc. to fill in gaps. I will also try to get the benchmarks to work with a Python 2.7 control and a Python 3 experimental target for comparing performance since that's what I need (or at least be able to run the benchmarks on their own and writing out the results for later comparison). Anything else that should be worked on? ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed The important thing is that once a benchmark is in the repo it can *never* change including all the versions of dependencies, only Python can vary, otherwise you kill the ability to actually do science with the numbers. So, e.g., I wouldn't pull in Vijnay's fork, since that's going to be utterly obsolete in a few weeks probably, I'd wait to have django on py3k for that work to all be merged into django itself. If that's happening in a few weeks then I can wait. But remember my desire is to get benchmark numbers between Python 2.7 and Python 3.3 for my November keynotes so I can't punt indefinitely. -Brett Alex -- I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire) The people's good is the highest law. -- Cicero ___ Speed mailing list Speed@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed
