It appears the general consensus is that you can not mix the res heads with
a room calc method. There was not a response from committee members
regarding the difference in compartment and one hour rated rooms. We used QR
heads and the room method but I disagree in principal because of the rating
Craig,
Thanks for the input, the manufacturer just called me back and said they
have no limitations on the heads I'm using, I had him send me that in an
email which I will forward to the AHJ.
Brian Harris
FDFP INC.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
So how about showing the AHJ the listings for the K14's and the listing for
those being used.
Yes sir, where there are height restrictions for sprinklers like those K
14's it is shown in the listing. There are no such restrictions on the ones we
are using.
Ed
Joe Hankins [EMAIL
We in fire protection are seeking a solution for grace period/ flexibility
for the maintenance, testing and inspection of the fire systems. With the
sheer number of systems it is almost impossible to schedule
testing/inspections with a rigid frequency that does not allow
flexibility.
NFPA
If the shaft is noncombustible and the car is noncombustible then you don't
need a head in the shaft IMHO. For hydraulic equipment a head to protect the
sump is in order.
Art @ ATCO Fire
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent:
Ah, 55' is what I was thinking, I knew I remembered that from somewhere!
Thanks for all the input forumites
Brian Harris
FDFP INC.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown
(TECH- GVL)
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:29 AM
To:
There is technically no limit on the height at which most sprinklers can
be utilized.
The more usual situation is when a specific sprinkler has a specific
listing limiting its usage to a certain height.
The number your memory is serving to you comes from the Life Safety Code
and references a
What we deal with here in Las Vegas are the local amendments to the
codes and NFPA 13. When a ceiling height is between 25 and 50 feet
above the floor below quick-response sprinklers with a minimum K-factor
of 11.2 is required. Once a ceiling height exceeds 50 feet a fire
protection engineer has
Unless the Mob was behind it, or there's some unidentifiable body in
the midst, sad to say, there's just not enough drama to make the
headlines.
But we're glad to hear the news regardless.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500
Sprinklers aren't rated for building height in and of themselves, as
the maximum height it depends on a lot of factors. So long as the
sprinklers are listed for the NFPA 13 design you are using, that's all
you need. For example, K14 ESFRs are limited to 32 ft. buildings at 50
psi, but can go
Ok, maybe I overstated the headline. But the fact is that yesterday
(Monday) we had two more fires in Las Vegas. Both Saved by Sprinklers!
Where is the national/world news reporting on these? Yes we issued an
official news release for both. As we all know, these stories will be
burried on the
Was there any general concensus to Greg's question about if you need to calc
4 residential sprinklers in a 13 application since we are applying the 0.10
density. It seems that QR heads would be the better choice since you can do
room design and only calculate 1-2 heads in most compartments.
Does anyone know how to protect a room with high density mobile shelving?
There is a 2 foot clearance between the deflectors and top of the shelving.
Mike Hairfield
Nicholson Sprinkler Corporation
ph 804-353-1822
fax 804-358-9047
Thanks!___
A single use structure has been divided into 3 buildings because of
occupancy and construction type issues related to the IBC. Horizontal
exits are provided and this means the building cannot be evacuated
simultaneously using the stair widths available.
Question - Are separate sprinkler zones
I am working on a modification to an existing system in a residential
occupancy. The design basis for the system is NFPA 13 (2002) Section
11.2.3.5 (4 residential sprinkelrs, 0.10 density). In the revision,
the architect has added soffits and drop ceiling areas in certain
rooms. As an example,
Was the bulk of the claim in damage to product, BI, pipe replacement?
Glc
Inquiring minds need to know :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Top Myers
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE:
Can you cover the room with a single sidewall sprinkler installed flush with
the bottom of the soffits/bulkheads? Use a residential sprinkler listed for
upto 12 inches below the ceiling. The flow for the 0.1 density might still
be greater than the listed flow for 12 inches below the ceiling.
Tony
Hi
There are no restrictions in NFPA 13 for Standard Spray Sprinklers. The
ceiling limitations are for storage sprinklers like ESFR. The old NFPA
101 Life Safety used to allow you to eliminate sprinklers in atriums
above 55 feet in height. There have been times when this has been
questions in
What about the reference that can be found in the NFPA 13 Handbook
commentary in Section 8.14.9 in the 2002 ed. and 8.15.9 in the 2007 ed.?
Tom Wellen
AFSA Technical Services
On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:41 AM, Mike Hairfield wrote:
Does anyone know how to protect a room with high density mobile
Mike
You can find protection information on mobile shelving units in the following
documents:
1. Fire Protection Study, Mobile Compact Shelving Fire Tests, Archives
II, Gage-Babcock Associates, Dated June 1990.
2. Full Scale Fire Tests of Sprinklered Mobile Shelving Units for
Forum,
I just got back some comments from the local AHJ on a project we are doing
and he's asking me to verify that the heads we are using are rated for
ceilings over 30'. I've spoke with the manufacturer and he said he doesn't
have anything on min./max. ceiling heights. If memory serves me isn't
Certain types of sprinklers have specific limitations and they are
usually listed as such, typically those designated for storage
occupancies. Most Control Mode sprinklers don't list any restrictions
and so far I haven't been able to find anything in NFPA stating an NFPA
imposed restriction.
this strategy (interior sprinklers to fight exterior fires)
was proposed by myself and a few others as a mitigation
against wildland fires to the San Diego
city council in the aftermath of the wildland fires there about
5 years ago. Automatic sprinklers work better than
most people realize, not
While I also remember Chris saying this he also pointed out that there where
AHJ's that will not use common sense when Appling the standards.
When I look at your bathroom and soffit situation I look for a Residential
head listed for 12 down from the ceiling. Spaced properly between your
This thread reminds me of a dilemma I tussled with last week. In regards to
residential sidewalls, section 8.10.7.1.2 (02) says not to install
residential sidewalls within 8' of a light or similar obstructions. It
doesn't provide any exceptions, such as the light being only 4 deep and the
I was at the jobsite today and the architect happened to be there. I
explained the situation and he said the ceiling heights were
arbitrarily chosen and the difference was 1 foot because 'that was
even'. He claimed the soffits were for recessed lighting, but the
high point of the ceiling is
It would be at the discretion of whomever you are accountable to as far
as submission of reports. If you submit reports to a local AHJ or
Underwriter I would contact them and ask how stringently you need to
follow the frequencies established in NFPA 25. I doubt that in a 365
day cycle a day or
NFPA 25 establishes inspection, testing and maintenance frequencies. A
grace period is not considered. Due to the large number and variety of
fire systems throughout our site, these frequencies cannot be met on a
rigid schedule.
For example an Annual test is performed, does that mean the
Addendum to my previous posting. I didn't mean directly below the
soffit/bulkhead. If the soffits are only on two or even three sides, this
will work. If they are on all four walls (assuming a rectangular room), then
it won't.
Tony
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I believe Roland and others interpret pockets to be greater than 12 deep. I
also believe common sense MUST be used in some cases and 3 sprinklers in a
90 sqft bathroom would probably not make a significant improvement of life
safety or property protection in my humble opinion based on many
A friend of mine pointed out that I erred and confused two guys at NFPA in
my last post.
James Lake took Chris Dubay's chair as staff liason with #13 (along with
other duties, of course).
Dr. John Hall is NFPA's assistant vice president of Fire Analysis and
Research.
I apologize for the
Mike,
you might find some usable information in Annex of NFPA 909.
Sima Zlotnikova
This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. If you receive this
message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should not
Installing a sidewall would be a pain in the extreme lower back.
At 03:44 PM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
While I also remember Chris saying this he also pointed out that
there where AHJ's that will not use common sense when Appling the standards.
When I look at your bathroom and soffit situation I
This guidance is from the GSA PBS P100 criteria:
Track Files
General. A track file uses a single aisle to give access to an otherwise
solid group of open-shelf files. Access is gained by moving shelf units
on rollers along a track until the proper unit is exposed.
Special Requirements. Track
Geraldine,
If I'm not mistaken isn't your email address the Savannah River Site
and didn't you all just come out with some new guidelines for
yourself? What does your AHJ say? And finally at least something to
hang your hat on: Look in NFPA 25-1.3 1.3A-2007 ed. which allows
alternatives. If you
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