RE: Change Orders

Frankly, I dread having to do a job that is not full 3-D, the GC cracking the whip on all trades with Navis Clash Detection over the phone once a week until everyone signs off, which is really the inflection point, nine months later, when "Who gets paid for what" depends on "who is where they're

RE: Change Orders

I’m packing up and moving to Florida! Rocci Cetani III, CET Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 93037 P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 F-(408) 776-1590

Re: Change Orders

Rocci, Here in Florida we have a system where by the Building Departments require a GC to provide Permit Applications from Fire Sprinkler Contractors in order to apply for the General Building Permit. Our Florida Fire Sprinkler Contractors Association worked diligently to have the process

Re: Standpipe Test requirements

Jerry, from the 2013 edition: 11.5.2 For a manual standpipe, a fire department pumper orportable pump of a capacity to provide required flow and pressureshall be used to verify the system design by pumping intothe fire department connection. Steve Leyton pointed that out to me a few

Re: Standpipe Test requirements

Hello John, In this area when they ask for that, I have pointed out they need to supply the 1st responding pumper truck for the test as trucks can be different and I know I will rent one that can provide 100 PSI to the top, BUT that does not mean THEIR pumper can. Always got them to supply the

RE: Standpipe Test requirements

It's clearly stated in 11.5 of both 2013 and 2016 editions of NFPA 14. Excluding the cost of a rented pump or pumper truck would be prudent ... SL My opinion only ... From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, July

RE: Standpipe Test requirements

We had that come up once. AHJ required a test but FD declined to provide a truck. We ended up renting tow-behind pump and hiring an operator. We definitely clarify that in our proposals now. Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas

RE: Standpipe Test requirements

Never. Sounds like something new to add to the list of exclusions. John Irwin Critical System Solutions Sprinkler Construction Manager 813-618-2781 jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling

Standpipe Test requirements

We have an AHJ that is asking us the contractor to provide a fire truck for testing the 100psi at the top of a manual standpipe. We would like to ask if it is the responsibility of the contractor to provide a pumper for the standpipe or what experience anyone has had in the past dealing with this

RE: Change Orders

Well written as usual Steve. I have 14+ years in sprinkler contracting, too. The next 27+ have been consulting and my business plan was VERY similar to yours. I could have written everything you did and felt the same way, with changes made to our documents just for change sake, and the

RE: Test header on riser

COE wants the RPZ and/or DCCV to be forward tested at full flow of the system. How does one know whether you have achieved that , and more importantly where do you put all that water unless you have enough throughput to the exterior or a drainage area without either using the FD connection

RE: Test header on riser

Why do you need to demonstrate the flow rate? The purpose of the forward flow test is to fully operate the back flow valve. A flow at 500 GPM will not open the valve fully? On Jul 14, 2016 9:52 AM, "David Williams" wrote: > As an engineer who just issued a design

RE: Change Orders

I wish more firms followed your business model. We do have a few good engineers in our area and we have very good relationships with those firms. We have, unfortunately, proven several firms (or at least individuals in the firm) incompetent and have had owners and managers try to hire us directly

RE: Change Orders

Well, I guess it's time to jump in here. For the record, I spent the first 14+ years of my career in contracting but the past 21 have been as a design consultant. I still and will always consider myself a "sprinkie" but the fact is that I'm the A/E. But I'm proud of my firm's reputation

RE: Change Orders

Easier said than done…….can’t be the 1st one in if the building is already being built and it’s just going out to sprinkler contractors to be bid….all I’m saying is sprinklers are always put on the back burner, last ones to get contracts, last to have priority. Rocci Cetani III, CET

RE: Change Orders

In 43 years I have learned to be the first trade in...and the first trade out.  Prepare your shop drWings with tie down dimensions and elevations...distributed to all trades. Put an end date for acceptance on your transmittal. Once that date pases get your pipe on job and don't look back.

Re: Change Orders

I believe if you have to have a sprinkler system. The A/E should be required to do the shop drawings and everything so it will be coordinated a little better and they can overlay it with their drawings. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 14, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Rocci Cetani 3

RE: Change Orders

Glad to see we aren't the only company dealing with the EXACT same issue...how long is it going to take before architects/builders realize they need to get sprinkler contractors involved a lot earlier in the process. Rocci Cetani III, CET Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout,

RE: Change Orders

AMEN -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hill Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:42 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Change Orders I once had an A/E argue with me about coordination

RE: Change Orders

I once had an A/E argue with me about coordination on a project and told me to just go by his coordinated plans. I told my installer to go get a core driller, I then pointed to a spot on the exterior wall and said I need a 6" hole right there. The A/E asked why the hell I needed a hole there, so I

RE: Acidic Corrosion

Art, We looked into acid corrosion issues with multiple customers who had experienced leaks in anti-freeze systems. We found that in the presence of heat and oxygen both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol break down over time to form acidic byproducts (acetic, lactic, formic, etc.), most of

Re: Change Orders

Michael, You hit the nail on the head I was just kind of curious if it was just us that had that issue and if I was missing something. I have also had a GC recently tell me well your designer should have caught that and asked the A/E. I went as far as going back through the entire bid

Re: acid corosion

Sent from my iPhone On Jul 13, 2016, at 9:26 PM, AKS-Gmail-IMAP > wrote: A suggestion: The Frat house has a CO2 system fed from the domestic water that is intended for making soda water for drinks. The system happens to also back feed into the

RE: Change Orders

In our recent experience, it doesn't matter if you get an approved change order or not. The GC just refuses to pay for it at the end of the project claiming they couldn't get it approved by the building owner. In general, it has to be determined why the sprinkler pipe is in conflict with other

Re: acid corosion

Install a check valve in the domestic connection? Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone On Jul 13, 2016, at 6:26 PM, AKS-Gmail-IMAP > wrote: A suggestion: The Frat house has a CO2 system fed from the domestic water that is intended for

Re: Test header on riser

So define test header and for what test. We just went through a huge thread about BOR and testing this that and everything else with the original questioner never defining what the test was for (or at least not before I got bored). First picture in my head when someone says test header is one for

RE: Test header on riser

Todd, I’m not sure you’ve really received an answer. Simply, there is not, in NFPA 13. You didn’t ask about government requirements or backflow preventer requirements. I would guess he/she is confused over the intent or the terminology. Good luck. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell:

Re: Change Orders

I always get the reply from the engineer "coordination". That's their famous words. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:06 AM, John Irwin > wrote: > > It all depends on how the project was coordinated and managed. If your > designer worked off of

RE: Change Orders

It all depends on how the project was coordinated and managed. If your designer worked off of HVAC shop drawings, and had your own shop drawings reviewed and approved by the Architect, then the duct is in the wrong spot, you should have no problem getting a change order. If you cut pipe

Re: Test header on riser

Had a project at a military base and they insisted that we installed a test header for the forward flow test on the back-flow preventer. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 14, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Todd Williams wrote: > > Is there any requirement to install a test header on a

RE: Change Orders

I usually pick and choose my battles. If I am coordinating onsite and need to offset a Branchline, usually it's not worth my time to put a CO in for a small offset. If I need to reroute a 4" Feed Main because there is no room in a ceiling or something, I will be submitting a change order. In

Change Orders

I am just curious how everyone else in the fire sprinkler industry deals with change orders. For example, everything for a project is prefabricated besides the return bends. Say you have an issue with the HVAC and your main has to be moved how do you go about that? Do you request for a change

RE: Test header on riser

As an engineer who just issued a design with such a test header (COE project where they "suggested" we look at this provision in the design). My view is that the FDC is fine for project with less than 500 gpm flow requirements. If over that (and in my case the flow was 1100 gpm), then we need a

Re: acid corosion

Have you reached out to any of the Nitrogen selling companies? maybe  Wet Pipe Nitrogen Inerting (WPNI) ?could solve the problem. On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:26 PM, AKS-Gmail-IMAP wrote: A suggestion: The Frat house has a CO2 system fed from the domestic water

RE: Test header on riser

We installed a by-pass on the FDC line for the forward flow test, but he wants a test header as well. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) Sent using CloudMagic [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti=6.0.64=8.2] On Thu,

RE: Test header on riser

I have installed a test header on a riser to do a flow test of a backflow, take a look at NFPA #13 2010 10.10.2.5 Ryan Labrie Fire Protection Designer Critical System Solutions, LLC 2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 St. Petersburg, FL 33716 Office: 727.209.5122 Fax: 727.209.5126 Cell:

RE: Test header on riser

Have not heard of this before. Perhaps he wants to do forward flow test for backflow preventer? Mike Hill From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 8:41 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org

Test header on riser

Is there any requirement to install a test header on a riser without a pump (In addition to arrangement for full flow FDC test)? I have an engineer insisting that it is. When I asked for referenced, I get the "you look it up" response. Just want to be sure before I scream back Todd G