RE: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

I’ve always thought it odd that the standards were rewritten so that there would be no exceptions and then so many sections start by saying “Except as provided by …”. In this particular instance, I think 7.6.3 is definitely an “exception” to 7.6.2. Here is the text from the 2000 edition of NFPA

RE: Fire pump testing

Thanks Karen and everyone. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Karen Lesko Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:51 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Fire pump testing

Re: closely spaced sprinklers, glass doors, and convenience stairs

Hi Ben: I work in New York City and sprinkler on both sides of glass door is used very often over here in lieu of fire rated door at egress corridor. Same as above for open stair, with draft stop and closely spaced sprinklers, although we have to request a variance from the department of buildi

NFPA #30 In-Racks

NFPA #30 3008 ed. We have worked through the tables and have determined that we need layout F (6) Section 16.5.1.10 (6) Layout F shall mean one line of in-rack sprinklers in the flue space at every other storage level above the first storage level and face sprinklers at the first storage le

Re: closely spaced sprinklers, glass doors, and convenience stairs

Here's what I think you're missing: if you're working for the architect as a code consultant for free, you're missing out on a prevailing wage that ranges from $150 to $250 per hour in different parts of the country. You are asking questions that our way outside the scope of a design-build fire

Re: Fire pump testing

We correct results with affinity laws for both engines and motors and also apply velocity head correction when applicable. Karen Lesko via Newton Mail [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pa&cv=9.4.53&pv=6.0.1&source=email_footer_2] On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:29pm, Scott Futrell < sco...@

Re: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

You should always keep in mind that if the buildings are insured, you need to maintain them per those requirements as well. I would not want to insure a vacant building with a disabled fire sprinkler. Joe ᐧ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforu

closely spaced sprinklers, glass doors, and convenience stairs

This is really a two part question, one dealing with closely spaced sprinklers at glass doors, and the second dealing with convenience stairs. Both deal with the 2012 IBC Backstory: Existing fully-sprinkled office building, we are doing a tenant fit-out for one client across three floors. Code p

RE: Fire pump testing-affinity laws

Thanks Scot and Byron! Certainly lends substance to the statement in ‘25’ that results should be evaluated by qualified individuals. Be safe. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of å... ..

RE: Fire pump testing

Thanks Tom. Great to know. That's what I just did, rejected the last two years on an existing building about to be sold. It's interesting that NFPA 25 states for 'engines' and doesn't include motors. Also, I just spent quality time with a pump field rep that I've known for years and he has ne

Fire pump testing-affinity laws

*​​Whether engine or motor​ turns the impeller,​ the affinity laws correct for other-than-nominal impeller * *​rotation. * ​I​ t ​would seem to ​ def ​y logic and deny valuable information if we do not apply the affinity laws, simply because a motor rather than an engine drives the impeller. ​ Aff

RE: Fire pump testing

Always do affinity adjustments. In fact I just disapproved an annual report for not adjusting because after I did myself, pump fell below 5% triggering a 'look see'. TD Forumites: I know some of you test pumps frequently (Tom D., Todd). Do you interpret NFPA 25 to require affinity law correction

RE: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

IFC Section 311.2.2 has exemptions for situations where the fire protection systems can be deactivated but needs to be approved. Basically, develop a well constructed letter outlining conditions and submit for approval. Get the approval in writing and maintain the conditions set forth in the cod

RE: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

All good comments, but the suggestions so far don't ask the important questions that I alluded too: Will the buildings all still have electric power to them or maybe some of them? Potential ignition sources. Will the buildings all be locked and secured or will there be access to some for any rea

Fire pump testing

Forumites: I know some of you test pumps frequently (Tom D., Todd). Do you interpret NFPA 25 to require affinity law corrections for annual testing of electric pumps? >From NFPA 25, 2011: 8.3.5.2 Engine Speed. 8.3.5.2.1 Theoretical factors for correction to the rated speed shall be applied where

Soffit Sprinklers

I have a Dining facility where we are using extended coverage sprinklers in the majority of the building. There are a few locations with soffits dividing areas that will require sprinkler. Do the sprinkler in the soffits have to be the same K-factor as the EC sprinklers? I remember seeing that if t

RE: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

I had this occur once in the past and we received permission from the AHJ to make it an anti-freeze system. It was less expensive than putting in the dry valves, pitching the pipe, taking out all of the drops, etc... The AHJ was fine with the anti-freeze in this instance since the building was

RE: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

The IFC says that if you have a system it must be maintained in an operative condition at all times. Also check NFPA 25 for maintenance requirements. Hope this helps. -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Foltz, Stua

Deactivated buildings

Stuart I am responding privately. At age 92 I don't want to get into a pissing contest with my former colleagues. There are many variables to consider. I am not surprised about the lack of direction you were given by the sprinkler forum. Most of them are the How To guys, rather than the What To gu

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

So very true. What's even funnier is that I had requested a Formal Interp from NFPA. One of my friends is at the main office. He said that what we wanted was plain black and white. So the committee would not meet to get an FI. There was nothing to be interpreted. He added a few colorful metaphor

Re: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

One simple answer is that under no circumstances may you use ethylene glycol. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 7:12 AM, wrote: > I would recommend you hire a Fire Protection Engineer as part of your > team. They can guide you through the process. Any answer here would > probably be too simplistic for wha

Re: professional plans reviewer?

Here's some starting points. Minnesota uses NFPA 1031 for certification of their plans examiners: http://www.mfscb.org/pdfs/CertPDF/Plan%20Examiner%20I.pdf And from IFSTA. https://www.ifsta.org Most of the jurisdictions I'm used to dealing with use t=IFSTA if anything at all. ICC: https://ww

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

I have to laugh every time one of us uses terms like "basic comprehension gets you to a..." when we all know that if the individual had "basic comprehension" we wouldn't be reading about it on the forum😩 Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2017, at 7:41 AM, Travis Mack, SE

RE: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

The entire section of 7.6 is speaking to sizing of the standpipe. 7.6.2 states “Standpipes that are part of a combined system shall be at least 6 in. (150 mm) in size”. 7.6.3 is a continuation of 7.6.2 and as much as says so by the wording “Where the building is protected throughout….”. This

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

Because the intent is that in a fully sprinklers building the minimum stand pipe size is 4 inch regardless of whether it's combined or not. For whatever it's worth, the committee adopted a revision two days ago that will help clarify this exact section. My opinion only. Steve Origin

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

The standard is re-written so there are no "exceptions." Combo standpipes can be 4" when combined with a system per 13 or 13R. I hope you are not fighting the same AHJ I did with this. Because 7.6.3 is not called an exception, he requires all combo standpipes to be 6". I even had AFSA provi

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

You read it as follows: 7.6.1 Standpipes of Class I or III shall be at least 4". You have to remember that there was a pipe schedule for standpipes. 7.6.2 If you have a combo standpipe, even if it is Class I or III, it shall be a minimum of 6". Again, recall the old pipe schedule days. 7.

Re: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

That makes sense, and is how I read it. But how would I make that case if I'm told that it doesn't apply to combined systems, because it doesn't include the word "combined", like 7.6.2 does? 7.6.3 Where the building is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system in accordance wi

Re: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

I would recommend you hire a Fire Protection Engineer as part of your team. They can guide you through the process. Any answer here would probably be too simplistic for what you are actuallly looking for. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-5

RE: sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

Stuart, This sounds like a project that may not be one size fits all and may require assessments of the different facilities and the specific locations. Preserving them for future use may require the sprinkler systems to remain active. There are certainly other questions that need to be addre

RE: Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

7.6.3 is not an exception so much as it’s a criteria to be followed. When the building is fully sprinklered per NFPA 13 and the system is hydraulically calculated the combined standpipe can be 4”. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforu

sprinklers in deactivated buildings with freeze potential

An owner is deactivating a group of buildings and wants to preserve them for future use. My group has been asked to make recommendations and model the economic impacts. Because these recommendation may be used in nearly any climate, we would like to recommend complete shutoff of all water but a

Combined Sprinkler/Standpipe Riser Size

NFPA 14 7.6.2 clearly states that a combined system standpipe rider shall be minimum 6". Is 7.6.3 intended to be an exception to 7.6.2? I interpret it to be an exception, since otherwise 7.6.3 isn't saying anything different than 7.6.1. However, there's no language specifying it as an exception.

RE: Test partner needed

Didn’t realize Digger was in Pottstown. Didn’t even know there was a Pottstown. SML From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:31 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Test partner ne

RE: Test partner needed

Digger Weigand at Victory Fire in Pottstown, PA maybe? John Irwin Division Manager – Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-53 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com [cid:image002.png@01D2D539

Test partner needed

Anyone near Pottsville, PA: Potentially, I will be in Pottsville Wed-Fri next week with a client who has a unique issue that we may want to resolve by simulating sprinkler flow through some storage totes. Long-story-short, I’m picturing a jig with either an ESFR sprinkler or a play pipe with a

Re: professional plans reviewer?

Matt, Try NICET; Fire Sprinkler Academy; Firetech;FFMIA;NFPA. Mario Berrios cowprop...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Matt Grise To: sprinklerforum Sent: Thu, May 25, 2017 3:27 am Subject: professional plans reviewer? I find myself reviewing a lot of fire sprinkler plans.

Re: professional plans reviewer?

Mario Berrios cowprop...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Matt Grise To: sprinklerforum Sent: Thu, May 25, 2017 3:27 am Subject: professional plans reviewer? I find myself reviewing a lot of fire sprinkler plans. Is there a certification that I can get that to indicate that I

RE: professional plans reviewer?

Thanks! Matt From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:25 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: professional plans reviewer? Matt, NFPA has a 'Certified Fire Plans Examiner' certifica

Re: professional plans reviewer?

Matt, NFPA has a 'Certified Fire Plans Examiner' certification http://www.nfpa.org/training-and-events/by-type/certifications/certified-fire-plan-examiner-i I briefly thought about getting something like this as well, but it involves a practicum portion which I didn't think I could do at the time

RE: professional plans reviewer?

I believe you will find a course through ICC that will result in the placard you are looking for.   Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Matt Grise Date: 05/25/2017 1:26 AM (GMT-07:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Sub

professional plans reviewer?

I find myself reviewing a lot of fire sprinkler plans. Is there a certification that I can get that to indicate that I know what I am doing? I feel like I do a really good job, but "you can totally trust me" is a little wordy for my business card. Thanks! Matt