I have personally installed many wet systems in cooler boxes. As Craig stated, once the water in the pipe reaches the temperature of the box, I have never seen an issue like this. I would suggest getting the HVAC contractor and their engineer involved. Something sounds off in their system. John J
It is added at the point of connection. So wherever your line connects
to the existing system you add an inside hose demand at the most remote
point of connection. Basically, in your case it will be the point that
you have connected to the existing grid.
/Thank you,
Bob Knight, CET III//
/*/
Per 2013, you add at end of new branch line where it touches cross main.
Per 2022, you add where new system touches old.
Obviously these are paraphrased and you should refer to documents for exact
language.
I’ve been able to use the new standards as clarification to the older standard
language
Hey Y'all,
Where should the phantom flow required by 23.4.4.1.1.5 (2013 ed) go when
the new calculation are for a new subsystem added on to an existing system.
The existing interior system is a grid and the new subsystem is a small
antifreeze system. I can add the phantom flow at the most remote br
Is the whole sprinkler system in the cool area?
Or is there a ceiling with drops down to sprinklers into the cooler and the
branch lines above in the warm area? If that is the case, then it makes sense
that the drops would be colder than the surrounding air and would have
condensation issues. I
It will be a sprinkler system issue. The piping is going to rust from the
outside to its inside. The first rust signs may not be visible from below
because it can start to happen on the pipe’s top edge which cannot be seen from
below. I have seen this happen myself.
> On Aug 8, 2023, at 3:22 PM
Tim, Craig pretty much nailed it. This is not a sprinkler issue. The HVAC
crowd needs to solve this. My concern is why is this a wet system to begin
with? Somewhere there is a chiller that is pumping out air a lot colder then 40
degrees to maintain that temperature; probably at roof
Not a sprinkler problem, is a humidity problem, they need to go to their
cooler people and figure out how to get rid of the humidity.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 2:22 PM Prahl, Craig wrote:
> Walk away from this one. This is not a sprinkler system issue. It’s a
> climate control issue. It’s odd th
Walk away from this one. This is not a sprinkler system issue. It's a climate
control issue. It's odd that a non-flowing system (sprinklers) is sweating. At
some point the static water in the piping should acclimate to the room
temperature unless there's an issue with heat stratification in t
I would DEFINITELY not get involved; my take would be that I'm not a mechanical
engineer, haven't ever experienced this phenomenon, don't know what's causing
it or how to resolve.
That said, a couple questions:
1. Is there any insulation at the roof? Is there anything between the
piping an
Tim,
Is any of the building steel sweating? If not, is this grid system
circulating water colder than the interior air temperature. I just cannot
fathom why you are getting a condensation issue.
John R. OConnor, SET, RME
National Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
2601 Elm Hill Pike, Suite J
A recently installed wet pipe sprinkler system protecting 25 high rack
storage of Class 3 Commodity. The warehouse is kept cool between 40° & 45°
F. (aging Cheese).
The Sprinkler system is a Grid Pipe with branch line piping installed about
12+ down below the roof deck. The pipes sweat profusely
The omission of a requirement does not create a requirement. You can never
prove a negative. I’ve had this argument before with someone saying I had to
prove something wouldn’t happen. It’s just not possible.
Does the code say I have to do it? Does the code address this particular
occurrenc
I hate to solve technical problems that aren't really problems by adding
cost to a jib but if the BI is not going to budge change the wood framing
design around the columns to steel and you have a non-combustible concealed
space. Or if already framed go with Chris' suggestion. I once had an AHJ
war
The building is built of steel columns and main beams but the rest of the
structure (joists, trusses, floors, other framing) is wood. I don’t have the
details of what the construction is at the floor around the column.
The problem with asking the BI to show where the Code sa
I can’t see how you could shoe-horn this into resembling a chase since a chase
typically penetrates floors and creates a shaft. This column does not
penetrate floors, does it?
Why would this not be the same condition as an exterior column but just on the
interior?
What is the logic behind omi
Shove it full of insulation and presto! You have non-combustible enclosed blind
space which is not required to be protected.
Chris Dorn
From: Fpdcdesign
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 9:10 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Spri
Ken, I totally agree with you. However, we are dealing with an NFPA 13
fundamentalist. If it’s not specifically written there, it is wrong.
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-2080) (ofc)
860-554-7054 (
Todd,
Although I agree that the space you're discussing is not actually a
"pipe chase" or an "exterior column" I view this as a circumstance where
-13 does not directly address the issue at hand. I submit that a "pipe
chase" comes the closest to describing what is taking place.
So, I looked
This phase of the project was designed using 2013 but the next phase will be
using 2019. The argument from the BI is that it is not a pipe chase nor an
exterior column.
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-
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