Thermal Expansion Water Hammer
One of the consequences of installing a backflow prevention assembly on any
water system is the system becoming a closed system. A closed system is a
system, which is not open to the atmosphere. A pressurized tank would be a
closed system, since there is no means
Now our local AHJ is requiring emergency vents on UL 142 diesel fuel
tanks be vented to outside. And because we will be adding pipe and
fittings between the tank and the vent they want calculations to prove
that the pipe size is adequate and the vent will operate as advertised.
(It seems like only
Rodney:
Just curious. I'm guessing there's gotta be a few dry systems down there in
unheated warehouses with extreme temp swings. So in these systems with 100%
air, do you find the pressure above the dry valves climbing to extreme
levels in the summer?
Dave Sornsin
General Manager - Fargo Office
I find it VERY interesting that you find it VERY interesting there has been
no findings. Hint of insecurity in your position?
Why would anyone try your experiment when it is irrelevant to the constant
volume container of a sprinkler system?
No one believes water compression is responsible for
Ron,
Note that your problem is similar to the one posted a couple of weeks
ago about sprinklers and limited combustible construction in concealed
spaces. The AHJ in that case did not follow the line of
reason/interpretation to its conclusion. Instead the AHJ stopped with
chapter X (I can't
Thanks John. I knew there was a missing component in that experiment
but couldn't (read wasn't interested enough) to put my finger on it.
Thermal expansion--makes you go Hm?
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:20 AM, John Drucker john.druc...@verizon.net wrote:
Thermal Expansion Water Hammer
One of
Water does expand and contract (Think ice bursting pipes) with
temperature. It is called thermal expansion. The coefficient of
expansion is not linear and varies with temperature. In the normal
range of temperatures that a system would be in (non-fire), the
coefficient is very small, but could
There are times when folks just have to agree to disagree. I asked
nicely last week to do just that and let this thread die. We all
enjoy a good debate but not when it becomes unnecessary contentious
Just because no one else agrees with your position is not a valid
reason to say that
I haven't kept up with this thread, but I was just wondering if the gauge
used is an air/water gauge that will measure air pressure as well as water
pressure. You can get these extremes with air compressed by expanded
water.
Thank You
Rahe Loftin, P.E.
Region 7 - GSA
Office - 817-978-7299
Fax -
Your insights/opinions of the best/most popular fixed fire protection system
for a cleanroom and NMR in an advanced research laboratory facilities.
Jaber M. Al-Haji
jaber.h...@aramco.com
jaber.h...@kaust.edu.sa
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Even with the new language in the supplement as referenced by Steve, the issue
is not clear.
The language in the supplement indicates that NFPA 13 is essentially equivalent
to section 13.6.8 of ASCE.
However, the requirement for 2 in. oversized rings is not in section 13.6.8.
It is in
For clean rooms, I have mostly done pre-action systems with clean room
sprinklers. NMR (non magnetic room?), similar to MRI spaces? Cpvc pipe and
non-ferrous sprinklers and appurtenances. Most of the ones have been
pre-action, but could also be wet.
--Original Message--
From: Haji,
Rich,
I think the supplement provides a great deal of clarification, if what
Joe Powell's question dealt with was Does the IBC allow NFPA-13
criteria to be used for seismic protection.
I understand your reference regarding the oversize rings, but I think
it's relevant to note that the
Ken,
I disagree.
The requirements for the 2-in. clearance is to prevent damage to the
sprinkler or drop due to excessive movement of the piping, not the due to
movement of the ceiling. If the ceiling is held to a more strenuous
standard making it more rigid, that will not remove the requirement
Speaking of seismic, how many have had to adhere to the Special Inspection
provisions and other requirements in IBC 2006?
I'm getting various input from only having to use the work sheet provided in 13
for calcs all the way up to having to have a Structural PE design the braces,
provide
Jeff,
I disagree with your disagreement, sort of. In item (e) from the ASCE7
section we're discussing on the ceiling rings, it explicitly notes that
a swing joint which will accommodate 1 of ceiling movement in all
directions waives the requirement for the oversize ring.
I do agree that the
The building owner wants to connect the discharge piping from the pump
relief valve to the pump suction pipe, just upstream of the suction valve.
The water supply to the pump is a water storage tank. Anyone seen this
arrangement? Is it acceptable?
NFPA 20, 2007 section 5.18.7 mentions Discharge
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