Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Todd Williams
The IBC mentions Limited Area sprinkler systems with a veiled reference being 20 sprinklers or less. However, there is no formal definition or description as to what they are or where they are allowed. Any thoughts or experience with this? I have a proposal on my desk for a partial system

RE: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Karen Purvis
I have done a few of these type systems. Usually the ones I have done involve a mechanical room with a gas furnace or an elevator equipment room. Karen Purvis Senior Designer Facility Systems Consultants 713 South Central Street, Suite 101 Knoxville, TN 37902 ph.865-246-0164 fax 865-246-1084

RE: Birdcage systems

2009-03-31 Thread Chris Cahill
Not an issue. In a birdcage the riser is not serving and area greater than 5000 sq.ft. (usually). There may be dozens or dozens of dozens of risers. And it's not exactly clear in the definitions but in a birdcage the vertical piping more closely matches the definition of a branch line. Chris

RE: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Todd Williams
I've done a few of the partial systems according to NFPA 101, but as you say, it is just a couple of heads in a space. That tops out a 6 sprinklers. However, the IBC one appears to go to 20. The one I have been asked to look at is 18. At 08:32 AM 3/31/2009, you wrote: I have done a few of

RE: PODs storage again

2009-03-31 Thread Ray Vance
Travis, This product commodity falls within the same parameters as boat storage - there is no prescriptive requirement to follow. In fact, NFPA has issued a statement this particular type of storage arrangement is outside the scope of NFPA-13. That being said, I have done a fair amount of

RE: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Eric Shelton
Actually, the IBC section on limited area sprinkler systems goes up to 19 heads (fewer than 20). It also requires a hydraulic calc with a simultaneous plumbing demand. Eric J. Shelton, PE Senior Fire Protection Engineer Hankins and Anderson Consulting Engineers 4880 Sadler Road Suite 300

RE: PODs storage again

2009-03-31 Thread Chris Cahill
The only hole in the thinking of the experts is their opinions are based on WAG not SWAG to my knowledge. I'm not suggesting they are wrong. I'd trust their knowledge a bit more if they had some test data (which doesn't exist) or at least some examples of fires and the outcome. Sure would be

Re: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Roland Huggins
As identified by Karen, the IBC allows some locations (such as furnace rooms) to be individually protected (or a higher degree of separation). This is providing protection from this room to the rest of the building. So I guess the sleeping room is such a hazard that the rest of the

RE: PODs storage again

2009-03-31 Thread Chris Cahill
While true initially the HPR then is replaced next year by Billy Bob Joe's Insurance and they sue the contractor when it fails. HPR didn't legally engineer it as they are not the EOR usually even though they often drive a design, Codes don't cover it. You are out on your own at that point.

RE: RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY DRY SYSTEM

2009-03-31 Thread Thom McMahon
This requirement for 15 Sec. delivery in residential dry systems already exists in NFPA 13 2007, Table 7.2.3.6.1 Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From:

RE: PODs storage again

2009-03-31 Thread Thom McMahon
1. If you can get the insurer to spec the design, good. 2. If the EOR spec's the design, protect yourself as best you can. Refer all questions of changes to them so they assume responsibility for every decision. 3. If you as a contractor are asked to make the design decisions, Walk, Run, take a

Re: RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY DRY SYSTEM

2009-03-31 Thread Roland Huggins
true but the text is weakly worded. The section that references the Table says based on the hazard not the type of sprinkler (as does the Table). I believe the intent was for residential sprinklers (for which a 15 sec requirement exists as part of the listing test standard) but writing

RE: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Thom McMahon
This is similar to the requirement for Basements over a certain area. 903.2.10.1 Stories and basements without openings. An automatic sprinkler system shall be installed in every story or basement of all buildings where the floor area exceeds 1,500 square feet (139.4 m2) and where there is not

Re: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Todd Williams
This is me we're talking about. I'll wear hip waiters and carry a bazooka. I got a proposal a few years back for a 58 head system fed from 10 separate risers from the 3/4 public connection (6 heads off a domestic system times 10 systems, right?). Same town; I hope not the same guy. I have no

Re: Limited Area sprinkler systems

2009-03-31 Thread Ed Vining
This sounds like something as ridiculous as I saw once. A dorm above a restaurant Surely someone is trying to protect the sleeping rooms from a fire in the restaurant. And by sprinklering the rooms?? Ed Vining On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Todd Williams t...@fpdc.com wrote: The IBC

RE: RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY DRY SYSTEM

2009-03-31 Thread Tom Duross
I wish that existed many editions ago. One of our clients have 20+ group residences built in the 70's and 80's, more like large ranch houses, they house severely mentally retarded adults. Most have 3 or 4 DPV's and sch40 systems throughout the attics feeding uprights and dry pendents. Some of

FW: [NJFireSafety] Upstate NY Group Home Fire - Sprinkler System Failure?

2009-03-31 Thread John Drucker
FYI John Drucker Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:34 PM Subject: [NJFireSafety] Upstate NY Group Home Fire - Sprinkler System Failure? An important fire that should be studied Here is he local newspaper's accounts of the fire. A 13D system? 4 die as plan 'impractical' State:

FW: CPVC

2009-03-31 Thread Chappell, Carl
Does anyone have any information regarding the request below? Thanks in advance. Carl Chappell From: Chris Brown [mailto:cbr...@certifiedlifesafety.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:45 PM To: Chappell, Carl Subject: CPVC Carl, Can you

Re: CPVC

2009-03-31 Thread Forest Wilson
I would contact the manufacturers and lunizol. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Chappell, Carl cchapp...@rjagroup.com Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:55 To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: FW: CPVC Does anyone have any information regarding

Re: CPVC

2009-03-31 Thread steve
Absolutely - some anti-MIC 1st generation coatings were identified as potentially incompatible, but I heard that has been reconciled in current products. Steve L. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Forest Wilson cherokeefire...@aol.com Date: Tue,

RE: CPVC

2009-03-31 Thread Paul Johnson
Carl, While I am not aware of any published case studies per-se, I do know you can go to manufacturers' websites for good information. For Spears, check out www.spearsmfg.com and click the link for Flameguard information. Scroll to the bottom for their document on this topic. For Blazemaster

Re: FW: CPVC

2009-03-31 Thread Todd Williams
Contact Blazemaster. They have a publication that lists compatible products. I recently picked up a hand out at a trade show. At 07:57 PM 3/31/2009, you wrote: Does anyone have any information regarding the request below? Thanks in advance. Carl Chappell

Re: FW: [NJFireSafety] Upstate NY Group Home Fire - Sprinkler System Failure?

2009-03-31 Thread Todd Williams
John, Please keep us informed of how this develops. I have done several similar type homes; the last one being for 6 multiple handicapped children that are not self rescuing. All have been full 13 systems (wet). If there is a problem, I want to know about it. Fortunately, CT allows the