Yes, sometimes boiling it down to one logical question is enough.
Ok, u want to suspend flammable fabric that drips hot burning debris down
atop kids in a daycare? What were u thinking?
In this case, if no obvious, dependable method of protection is available,
remark it's a nice idea but no, you
Create your own test. Light a controlled fire like a pan of heptane or
alcohol in the space with the lycra installed and see what happens with just
overhead sprinklers. Find some local FPE's or arson investigators to help
they'd love it. Could find a warehouse with an 18' ceiling if they don't
Is there any testing or criteria in regards to equivalent rating for a
water curtain or deluge curtain when protecting an opening in a rated
wall? I have a 3' opening in a 3 hour wall and the architect is trying
to see if this can be accomplished with a water or deluge curtain.
Thanks,
Dewayne
We've discussed this before and the answer is no there is no published data of
an equivalency.
Fire shutter is your best bet.
What is the opening for?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491,
Not sure, one of my PM's came to me with the question.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
craig.pr...@ch2m.com
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:04 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
We have the same thing in a 2 hr wall. However, this opening is for a
conveyor to pass through. I don't think I can get a shutter there. Any
ideas?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne
And a water curtain allows radiant heat energy to pass but not convective.
So fires could start on the other side theoretically. True it's really hard
to start a fire at distance with radiant heat alone. It's especially hard
with a sprinkler controlled fire. Local AHJ may be sympathetic
What I have learned so far is that Lycra is strong polyurethane fiber
segments joined with stretchy (soft) polyester or polyether fiber segments.
The amounts of each varies with the blend. The polyurethane provides the
mechanical body to the fiber while the other stuff provides the elasticity.
The
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Our local school auditorium has 3x8 ft acoustic panels suspended above the
stage with 135'F links and 200'F sprinklers. The panels release on one side
to hang perpendicular between the overhead sprinklers. I believe the links
used were the same ones used on automatic roof vents.
Yes Lycra will
Or just get a different material.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org]
Typically conveyors will have a break at a rated wall to allow for a shutter,
often they will also have interlocks to stop the conveyor if a fire signal is
sent from a sprinkler system or if a shutter closes (when the shutters have
closure switches on them, not all do). I've seen some where
It's done all the time in fire partitions but a 3 hr wall is starting
to sound like a fire wall (which presents a much greater concern
regarding integrity etc.). I'd proceed carefully.
Roland
On Apr 16, 2009, at 7:50 AM, Dewayne Martinez wrote:
Is there any testing or criteria in regards
I can almost guarantee wet lycra will not go anywhere in the early stages of
a fire. Ever put a paper cup or plastic bag full of water in a fire?
Let's assume the first heads goes off without any delay. Let's even assume
the lycra below the fire is gone. These are reasonable assumptions
http://www.mmdoor.com.cn/e_index.htm
Try these guys the make custom fire doors as well. Any door that reduces the
opening, and then having sprinklers on both side may be the most effective.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel:
Allan,
There are way too many question on this stuff. What is really going
to happen with that arrangement in a fire situation? Will the fabric
more likely start to deteriorate directly above the fire or along the
ceiling jet? If one area starts to go, how will the rest of the panel
react?
Rated partition and rated wall assemblies are different in construction, but in
either case has anyone seen any calcs proving equivalency of a sprinkler or
sprinklers to a UL listed rated assembly?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
Only the window sprinklers.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On
If an AHJ accepts CPVC pipe for an Ord. Group II warehouse installation, is
it ok to do a LH alteration to that system for office space? Or is it better
to just Run and make sure there is no connection to you for any part in this
system?
I'm thinking Don't Touch It! Any other thoughts?
I've also seen the conveyor be enclosed for 10' +/- on either side with
either QR heads or with something like a gem thermal control valve on each
side, each TCV feeding spkrs on BOTH sides of the wall.
Learn from history, if you have any aerosols present, Kmart (1981) Falls
twp, PA; just over a
I personally wouldn't touch it, if something bad happens in any area of the
system I'm sure the legal system would try to tie you to it since you were
aware of the problems even though you didn't originally cause it.
Jim Johnston, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Inland Fire Protection, Inc
1100
Noreen can omit almost anything in contract :)
I assume its over 400 SF warehouse and not in a light hazard building?
I'd scan the horizon for what could bite you later, tho- is return worth
risk?
glc
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
The classic contractor's dilemma - Risk versus Reward. A few humble-opinion
thoughts on each:
From a Risk standpoint, if something (anything) goes wrong later down the
road, what can you rely on that will prove you installed in accordance with
applicable standards, manufacturers' instructions,
Sounds like a great project for your competition.
Many moons ago (my previous employer), we did a partial system in a
manufacturing area that was so caustic that galvanized pipe would rot
in less than a year. We got permission to use CPVC and it held up
fine. Other than that, stay away
At
What did you hang the pipe with?
Just because someone gave permission to install a product in a system outside
of it's listing doesn't absolve a contractor of potential negligence if the
system fails or does not perform as a listed component would. That could be
kind of shaky ground.
Was
The way I see it, If you have a situation Outside of the scope of the
code/standard like a corrosive environment, and the EOR says use this
product in this manner. Both you and the owner are protected from liability
to the best of your ability, by the EOR knowing the extent of his design
I don't recall what they used for hangers. The job was done 22 years
ago +/-, so I don't remember all the details. My boss at the time
handled the negotiations and everybody signed off on it (Ins co, AHJ,
etc.). As I recall there was an issue with stainless but I really
don't remember what. It
LOL- while that's a tribute to the longevity of CPVC in acid bath proximity,
NOW we have a storage area protected by CPVC lines :)
Give ya a similar recent experience:
Those darn balcony heads in IBC- owner strictly enforces No BBQ in apts.
We're doing Bldg 2, enforcement obvious in adjacent
Fusible links have tension rating of 1# to #50# for metal links. I do not know
the tension
rating of the glass bulb links made by Job. Temperature ratings are from 135*F
to 500*F
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
--- Original Message ---
The last
We are reported an accidental discharge of ESFR in a roll paper warehouse.
I have two questions:
Q1 : Apart from the technical papers, does any one has a,
- flow chart
- check list
for a systematic and analytical analysis of (root) cause(s)?
Q2 : Is there a database where I can both report to
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