RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Love this thread- I've faced similar situations and lost every time. In the end I agree with Steve's question of asking why we wouldn't want to protect these areas (proactive) Popcorn popped- carry on Jeff Bridges JBFP Inc From: Sprinklerforum

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

It looks like this has been discussed and documented as requiring sprinklers no matter what the covering. But one of the posts said the “insulated metal panel” was noncombustible, using that as a possible reason for no sprinklers. What is it insulated with? If it is insulated with

Re: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

I have to agree with Steve.NFPA-13 requires sprinklers in all areas unless specifically allowed to be omitted. This exterior covered restaurant scenario is common in Dallas, and sprinklers are required. The only exceptions that I know of are those that were constructed without

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Steve is spot on. See committee statement below. [cid:image001.png@01D2B786.0BE9D460] Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248 Direct: (407) 877-5570 Fax: (407) 656-8026

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

You're trying to convince the wrong guy. Everybody should address these arguments to people whose names are followed by the initials CBO in their email signature or who go by the first name Chief. SML From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of

Re: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

No, that's not the point. Patio furniture, planters, newspaper machines etc.. are not considered "storage or handling of combustibles." I think a valid claim could be made against sprinklers in this particular situation. On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Steve Leyton

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

8.15.7.5 is your "solid reference", unless there's a conforming exception. A vinyl canopy is not non-combustible, but aluminum sheathing is, which underscores the subjectivity of the issue. Do I think that this is a hyper-critical life-safety issue? No. Is there a wave of fire incident

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Only if you were STORING people eating burgers on the loading dock. You're starting to raise questions of your credibility. Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 9:06 AM To:

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Look I'm not arguing against them. If you could have produced a solid reference or ruling that says they are required than I would have said so be it. But as there doesn't seem to be one, and in fact, I interpret 8.15.7 to read the opposite, than I'm not going to push sprinklers on him. John

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Hm ... so the same could be said for a loading dock, no? If the owner is willing to sign a letter stating they absolutely will not have any fires in this area ... SML From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Monday, April

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Well said. Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 9:01 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area Sure I'd like to do a couple

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Sure I'd like to do a couple dozen more sprinklers for them. But I'd rather insert come common sense in to the equation. I have a steel frame and aluminum covered panels in a seating area that is open nearly all the way around. It's on the water so corrosion is a factor as well. I'm not

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

SOP out here, brother. If the fire official thinks that a retail store might have seasonal sidewalk merchandise displays, overhangs on mercantile buildings get sprinklered too. John - apart from what the standard says, don't you want to sell them sprinkler protection for this area? SML

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

What does 8.15.7.5 say?“Sprinklers SHALL be installed under exterior protections greater than 2’ wide over areas where combustibles are stored. By any reasonable assessment, the configuration of a restaurant seating area would have combustibles in place (i.e. stored) as a function of its

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

I'm in Florida so obviously we have a LOT of covered seating in the area. Very VERY rarely do I see sprinkler protection. John Irwin - CET Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-53 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email:

Re: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

A.8.15.7.5 Short-term transient storage, such as that for delivered packages, and the presence of planters, newspaper machines, and so forth, should not be considered for storage or handling of combustibles. *** The presence of combustible furniture on balconies for occupant use should not

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

John: I was responding earlier from home and now, seated at my incredibly cluttered desk, have reviewed 8.15.7 (2013 ed.). As tactfully as I can say this, you're reaching. For very hard-to-grasp fruit. I sincerely doubt you're going to get any fire or building official to see your way to

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Obviously they will have their say but in Florida, local fire authorities are not permitted to make requirements outside of the Florida Fire Prevention Code without actually passing an ordinance. John Irwin - CET Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number:

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

I suggest you run those by your local building and fire officials. Steve Original message From: John Irwin Date: 4/17/17 6:00 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area I would

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

I would disagree with this unless you can direct me to some more information. 8.15.7.3(2) even goes on to spell out Light and Ordinary Hazard Occupancy situations where sprinklers can be omitted. John Irwin - CET Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number:

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Overhang exceptions only apply when the area below is not used for storage or handling of combustibles or otherwise classified as occupied by the applicable building code or building official. As Spicey would say, restaurant seating areas are assembly occupancy, PERIOD! Steve

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

I'm using 13 8.15.7 to argue that if the fabric covering the steel frame is non-combustible than perhaps the sprinklers are not required. [cid:image005.jpg@01D2B756.F88F0A40] John Irwin - CET Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-53 Cell:

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Often, we try to read the standards backwards. The way that NFPA 13 is written, it requires sprinklers everywhere. What the client is hopeful of is an exception but I'm pretty sure they are not going to find one for this particular application. If I'm taking the contrary point of view, I would

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

My interpretation and most of the AHJ we deal with look at an exterior awning or seating area over 4' requires protection if it attached directly to the structure. If it is only attached to the exterior or separated then it can be lumped into the Porte Cocher exception. -Original

RE: Tyco DPV-1 Dry valves

Douglas, The problem appears to be when the two small orifices in the ¾” port are plugged and water doesn’t flow through the trim to the pressure switch. Check carefully in systems more than five years old and where corrosion in the dry pipe system is more evident. You will need to remove the

RE: Sensing line fittings

We have used them and haven’t run into any problems. *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Ben Young *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 5:50 AM *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org *Subject:* Sensing line fittings Is there any

RE: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Yes. The covered seating area begins at the face of the structure. John Irwin - CET Division Manager - Fire Sprinklers Critical System Solutions, LLC Licence Number: FPC16-53 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email:  jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum

Re: Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Did the steel frame for the seating area tie in to the building structure? Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Apr 17, 2017 7:11 AM, John Irwin wrote: Here’s the situation. Existing restaurant seating area covered by steel frame and vinyl or nylon tarp. 100%

Covered Restaurant Seating Area

Here's the situation. Existing restaurant seating area covered by steel frame and vinyl or nylon tarp. 100% open. Protected with sprinklers. Additional covered seating area being added that will be steel frame but insulated aluminum panel roof. 100% open. Client doesn't believe sprinklers are

Sensing line fittings

Is there any reason I couldn't use ProPress (PressFit) fittings on hard copper tube for fire pump sensing lines? They are listed and approved for fire protection use by 13, and are pressure rated for 175 PSI, so as long as my pump doesn't exceed that at churn it should be OK based on my reading