Re: adjusting the K-Factor with our bare hands

2013-06-11 Thread George Church
I'd be concerned that you have completely muddled up kfactors for someone who no longer looks at it as the standard and industry practices do. But why listen to us warning about sending novices out with the wrong viewpoint? Sent from my iPhone On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Brad Casterline

Re: adjusting the K-Factor with our bare hands

2013-06-11 Thread George Church
Brad I'd rather spend my remaining time with my wife and I'm licking myself for saying anything. Btw who might be accepting this for the jurisdiction? Sent from my iPhone On Jun 11, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Brad Casterline bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com wrote: Thanks Matt and Ron. I appreciate ALL

Re: adjusting the K-Factor with our bare hands

2013-06-11 Thread George Church
but when I think of him it's saying and I always chuckle. You just keep licking yourself for a long time, OK. And let Leyton Yosemite Sam out on Brad. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:32 PM, George Church g...@rowesprinkler.comwrote: Brad I'd rather spend my remaining time with my wife

Re: test header

2013-06-03 Thread George Church
I believe tommy d could fill you in on a lot of local horror stories. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Todd - Work t...@fpdc.com wrote: What exactly is the purpose of a forward flow test on a backflow preventer? This is not required on other check valve devices such as alarm

Re: 13R local alarm

2013-05-29 Thread George Church
Couldn't treat em as 13d irc townhouses? Sent from my iPhone On May 29, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Todd - Work t...@fpdc.com wrote: This is an older single story 3 family side-by-side structure. The 13R system is being retrofitted. I believe (am confirming) that they have local hard wired smoke

Re: 13R local alarm

2013-05-29 Thread George Church
Horn strobe? Sent from my iPhone On May 29, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Todd - Work t...@fpdc.com wrote: My contract does not include alarms, only the sprinklers. It will be up to the owner and the FM to work that detail out. I have been asked to show a strobe outside and a local interior alarm on

Re: Moving building

2013-05-26 Thread George Church
If these are modular homes its likely cpvc that isn't going anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2013, at 11:46 PM, Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com wrote: Whether or not the system would sway during moving would be dependent on how it's currently installed. If in earthquake country it

Re: calc procedure logic

2013-05-24 Thread George Church
Ask them if they flowed it at a specified pressure instead of velocity and you will avoid glazed eyes. Speak their language And no, outside its listing they likely won't stand behind it because there is nothing to stand on. Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Brad Casterline

Re: calc procedure logic

2013-05-21 Thread George Church
My recollection of the 7 psi min ehp was to make sure the cap was removed and an acceptable pattern developed. Thought it took 5 psi to clear the waterway so 7 became the min, maybe for pattern, maybe buffer. Mark, that's a Min ehp. With today's hi perf heads we often need lots more,

Re: calc procedure logic

2013-05-21 Thread George Church
Except that you are designing outside the standard. Can't recall ever even thinking of approaching an AHJ with 6 psi instead of 7. Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Brad Casterline bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com wrote: Thanks John. Assuming that is true, we could say a 1/2 head at 7

Re: calc procedure logic

2013-05-21 Thread George Church
Add some dried sludge and age 20 years. Mark, did u see the clogged drops on a DIPreAction sys up your way? I realize we need to maintain and cure bad ones with testing, but reality testing should include aging and normal degradation of system. Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2013, at 4:28

Re: NFPA 22 2013 Water storage re-fill time.

2013-05-17 Thread George Church
Owner can have an agreement with one (or more) local tanker company to respond with x number of trucks to fill in 8. Heckuva lot cheaper than redundant or double sized tank. This should qualify as a means to fill in 8. Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Morey, Mike

Re: Ah Yes.... Velocity....

2013-05-13 Thread George Church
Written by one of those Terp FPEs, right? Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 6:21 PM, Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo prodesigngr...@msn.com wrote: There was once a white paper that discussed Porches and Tractors when it came to Velocities... From: rhugg...@firesprinkler.org

Re: Response times to system deficiencies

2013-05-11 Thread George Church
I've had to follow 25 when replacing at diesel pump. Royal PIA even for a Spkr geek. Sent from my iPhone On May 7, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Roland Huggins rhugg...@firesprinkler.org wrote: Obviously there's nothing in 13 since that's an installation standard. The main point is that there is no

Re: K-Factor

2013-05-11 Thread George Church
Back in the 80s I called CSC to ask how to figure it since we had just put a 5' tall sprinkler atop the building. They said they are determined empirically, lending support to Roland. Glc Sent from my iPhone On May 7, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Roland Huggins rhugg...@firesprinkler.org wrote: In

Re: Soap box

2013-05-02 Thread George Church
for being yourselves. Glc Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2013, at 5:18 PM, Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com wrote: Stay on that box George. On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:56 PM, George Church g...@rowesprinkler.com wrote: That well-rounded education is very useful in the workplace. Like

Re: check valves on dry standpipes

2013-05-02 Thread George Church
Bet the FF get soaked since they expect that check is in place like every other fdc they've seen. I did a manual dry in mid80s buried in interior pilasters, protected by heat, and put supervisory water in it for supervision, so needed the check. Glc Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2013, at

Re: Old style deflector

2013-05-01 Thread George Church
That well-rounded education is very useful in the workplace. Like the NICET testing forcing us to look at various segments of the industry and see it presented in a complete set of pipe charts. One sees all available so if someone brings up or specs on something OTHER than what we all use- sch

Re: Home sprinkler mandate in MN

2013-04-30 Thread George Church
Compare MD for including a lot more sprinklered homes. Wouldn't it be great to get $9,000 for a 13d tank and pump? The list gets bigger, my tolerance already gone with the politics of money in PA's Act 1 to get rid of pesky sprinklers. And they know they are lying. I can't call these half

Re: Home sprinkler mandate in MN

2013-04-30 Thread George Church
Is there a truth on advertising law that could lead to cease and resist? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:48 PM, James McHugh jmch...@testandrain.com wrote: ...Minnesota are a national model for fire safety where fire deaths have virtually disappeared tell that to the 50 families in

Re: West, TX explosion

2013-04-26 Thread George Church
Hasn't worked for reining in Big Pharma. It's all relative and those boys work in billions, not millions Just the cost of doing business. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 26, 2013, at 2:16 PM, Steve Leyton st...@protectiondesign.com wrote: I'm not suggesting that they had sinister intentions, but

Re: QA/QC Pipe Joining Procedures for DOE

2013-01-27 Thread George Church
Or ask if you could have a cc of a previously accepted one? File under freedom of info Sent from my iPhone On Jan 21, 2013, at 5:48 PM, rfletc...@aerofire.com rfletc...@aerofire.com wrote: Thanks, I'll check it out. Ron Fletcher Aero Phoenix -Original Message- From:

RE: Wet tents drying at 45'

2013-01-03 Thread George Church
...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:21 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Wet tents drying at 45' Ok. 2007 #13, steel joist noncombustible construction, and qualify someone has BA Fan interlock off WFS. Glc Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012

RE: Wet tents drying at 45'

2013-01-03 Thread George Church
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:21 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Wet tents drying at 45' Ok. 2007 #13, steel joist noncombustible construction, and qualify someone has BA Fan interlock off WFS. Glc Sent

RE: Ch 17 NFPA 13 (07ed)

2013-01-03 Thread George Church
Look at 2.3.6.5on pgs 52-53 of FM DS 8-9. One level IRAS at 5' OC and lower the roof storage height to whats shown. A lot easier to protect, and allows up to 20' clear. After 20', false ceiling, Equivalency FPE, etc. none of which are pretty. Assuming AHJ would allow specific FM DS criteria

RE: Wet tents drying at 45'

2013-01-02 Thread George Church
Subject: RE: Wet tents drying at 45' Open floor plan? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:21 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Wet

Wet tents drying at 45'

2012-12-31 Thread George Church
Here's an unusual one. Tent rental firm, they have a 45' high bay with BA Fans and floor heat and a couple Unit heaters. They hoist them with wires and spread them out. Separate high piled rack storage outside this area, so fuel load is just what is hanging. Fire resistant canvass primarily,

Re: Wet tents drying at 45'

2012-12-31 Thread George Church
Ok. 2007 #13, steel joist noncombustible construction, and qualify someone has BA Fan interlock off WFS. Glc Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2012, at 3:17 PM, George Church g...@rowesprinkler.com wrote: Here's an unusual one. Tent rental firm, they have a 45' high bay with BA Fans and floor

Re: advice

2012-12-14 Thread George Church
I can see a case for libel, too. Even if not pursued, watch the look on the supervisors face when mentioned. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2012, at 8:40 AM, craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: Referred to Law enforcement, really? Because someone said something bad about

RE: 20 PSI Minimum

2012-11-13 Thread George Church
the FDC from a hydrant at 19 PSI? None that I know would stop. Mark at Aero -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:51 AM To: sprinklerforum

RE: 20 PSI Minimum

2012-11-12 Thread George Church
Are we talking a low suction cut-off, but of the supply NOT suction to a pump? I suppose the water co wouldn't want the pressure to go below 20, but it flies in the face of all we stand for to have a shut-off inserted for stopping the operation of the sprinkler system if the supply pressure is

RE: 20 PSI Minimum

2012-11-12 Thread George Church
? None that I know would stop. Mark at Aero -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 20 PSI

RE: Project Specifications

2012-11-06 Thread George Church
If we were writing Code, someone would have yelled out Undefinable and we wouldn't have put it in the document. If the firm issuing this is competent, I don't see a problem. They're just as frustrated trying to educate some unwashed contractors as we are in trying to educate some plumbing PEs

RE: Project Specifications

2012-11-06 Thread George Church
Life would be simpler if 90% of the bid docs we get weren't completely silent beyond meet code or contained fatal errors. My favorite is when they fluff out their notes with snippets of #13, like specifying the MRA, say .1/1500. Oh- so if there's unsprinklered combustible concealed spaces we

RE: Sodium Silicate

2012-11-01 Thread George Church
Triggers an RPZ Plugs heads Need much more? Turns to glass when exposed to air, hence the sealing action. Imagine cross connection and a resident drinks it. That, my friend, is the type of negligence that pierces the corporate veil and puts you where you belong. Not using it is a noo-brainer.

RE: Stainless Steel Pipe

2012-10-29 Thread George Church
, but in the hustle-bustle of C.O.J. and field roll groove, the same amount of QC might not happen. Since we cannot cut groove thinwall, all galv for the Corps ends up S40. Are there any portable cut-groovers around anymore? -Original Message- From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com] Sent

RE: Stainless Steel Pipe

2012-10-26 Thread George Church
There's a heckuva lot of roll grooved galv S10 installed in sprinkler systems. We have 7 miles of it in one freezer that comes to mind.with TriSeals, of course. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

RE: trip time per nfpa 25

2012-10-25 Thread George Church
Fortunately for us, it's been when our inspector is there wondering why 80 PSI and zero air doesn't raise the clapper. And the time the DPV acted with smart logic- somehow it knew the attic low point wasn't drained, so when it broke, the DPV didn't trip and cause all that nasty water damage.

RE: K25 Standard Response Storage

2012-10-23 Thread George Church
So far as I know from a recent bid, that's it. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Wood pellet manufacturing

2012-10-18 Thread George Church
But Todd- You're hired to just list the job? Do it. Can't see where that could possibly involve liability, but with the legal decisions one sees, I'd write a letter to the contractor you're listing for and note your concerns, list it, and send em an invoice. Think of all the NFPA 25

RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons

2012-10-17 Thread George Church
And I believe the Academy is certifying the inspectors in FL and other locales as an alternative to NICET. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

RE: 13R balcony protection

2012-10-15 Thread George Church
I suppose it's just since we apply the codes and standards as adopted so most AHJs don't know and don't care if we can model something or draw other conclusions than what they're reading in black and white, day in and day out. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box

RE: 13R balcony protection

2012-10-15 Thread George Church
- From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 7:46 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection I suppose it's just since we apply the codes and standards as adopted so most AHJs don't know and don't care if we can model

RE: Fire pump annual test

2012-10-08 Thread George Church
Pressure limiting device Governor on the diesel to lower speed at churn so as not to exceed 170 PSI discharge pressure. Used when the water supply exhibits relatively high static and low residual, and you need 170 at rated capacity. See NFPA 20 2003 for first invocation against using the main

RE: Air Supply

2012-10-05 Thread George Church
But the cure (air leakage test performed every 3 years) is only cured when: a) its adopted b) its enforced. Parallel to when an EOR leaves boiler plate in his spec for compliance with the latest edition of a particular code or standard. Why would you penalize the Owner's wallet for compliance

RE: Air Supply

2012-10-05 Thread George Church
$ You've got a belt and suspenders cost for a customer who, by code, only needs one. And it didn't have to be the more expensive N2 version. So when presenting the idea of minimizing future corrosion, he's got the following, grabbing $ out of the air: 1. plant air- $600 for an AMD 2.

RE: Stupid closet question...

2012-10-05 Thread George Church
Small until you do a large complex and add 30% of the heads-OUCH! George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Air Supply

2012-10-05 Thread George Church
a couple of 5000 PSI bombs 20' from bedrooms. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:22 AM To: Charles Thurston; sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject

RE: Roof piping system

2012-10-04 Thread George Church
I'd think it would move similar to a deluge valve when the pumper hits it. How about hilti hdi-p drop-ins with rod up to riser clamps, with galv pipe nips over them. Allows maintain pitch. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   

RE: Fire pump annual test

2012-10-04 Thread George Church
I'd agree, but sometimes it isn't much. We had a 572 HP diesel for a 3,000 @ 170 PLD that dropped like 400 RPM from churn to 150% (4,500 GPM!!!) Limited selection in the big variable speed diesel drivers. Had to increase pumproom 2' in width to fit the testosterone in. George L. Church, Jr.,

RE: Air Supply

2012-10-04 Thread George Church
First, why would you add air when the N2 alone is the cat's meow to minimize corrosion? Next, with an AMD it's an auto air supply until its empty. If they keep a spare bottle and there's a low air whistle, and you haven't installed a leaker, then they can change it when they come in for work

RE: Fire Pump on vibration spring type isolators

2012-10-01 Thread George Church
Might be quicker to ask the specifying EOR where this is permited in #20 because you can't find it and you, and 600 of your sprinkler friends, have never seen it done. Might be a reason. Plus it might a-make him think b-make him look at #20 c-make him figure it out while you do something

RE: Fire Pump on vibration spring type isolators

2012-10-01 Thread George Church
How much is a 10 x 96 long flex coupling? Well, two of them Any cost overruns could be covered by a quarter slot, mount a saddle to it (western) and hit the button! George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-29 Thread George Church
I believe that's the intent of having 286*F in storage with less demanding criteria than 165*F. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

RE: galvanized to steel connections

2012-09-29 Thread George Church
Too late to make you r modifications and paint the whole thing red before calling for inspection? Doubt any of us are providing a blast finish onsite. Letter from Allied on XL and black? George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-29 Thread George Church
You can lead an AHJ to water but you can't make him think. Or see what you think is obvious. Might want to print out responses from the Forum and show him what your peers say and cite (save this for when he still says No). George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407,

RE: Excellent comments from a smart guy

2012-09-21 Thread George Church
If it's a low ceiling, and you can get max 7' storage in it or less, OH1? George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

RE: Basements storage in multiple dwellings

2012-09-20 Thread George Church
There are some exceptions for storage areas that are broken into maybe 500 SF max areas being allowed to bbe .05 with resi's, I believe. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com

RE: Basements storage in multiple dwellings

2012-09-20 Thread George Church
dsg method @ 0.1 with QR sprinklers. -Original Message- From: George Church g...@rowesprinkler.com To: sprinklerforum sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 9:50 am Subject: RE: Basements storage in multiple dwellings There are some exceptions for storage areas

RE: Sprinkler design for class IV rack storage

2012-09-20 Thread George Church
I'd say Special Application, usually a larger K Factor that reduces pressure demand compared to what you might ordinarily used. Think of a K25 ESFR's ability to reduce pressure requirements to eliminate the need for a fire pump since you only need 15 PSI instead of 75. George L. Church, Jr.,

RE: Star Phantom cut sheet

2012-09-18 Thread George Church
Might want to know that there wasn't anything preventing a couple of those springs being used to attach the cover plate, so the drop length might or might not be the one you calculated, or the one that didn't have to be recut if you had some spare springs. Please don't ask me why I know this, I

RE: Shutoff at Service Entrance

2012-09-17 Thread George Church
How do you know that we didn't harden ANY buildings after 9/11? Data on all buildings in the world? You jump your mentor over no data, then make a claim as all-encompassing as that? I'd be surprised if SOMEONE didn't do SOMETHING to harden their building after that terrible catastrophe. It's a

RE: wax coated - quick response sprinkler

2012-09-17 Thread George Church
Some of the Teflon white coatings are listed corrosion proof, use a deep dish stainless escutcheon not recessed and you're free of listing the combo of spkr and esc. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

RE: NJ windowless Basements N.J.A.C. 5:70-4.7

2012-09-17 Thread George Church
So treat it conceptually as a manual wet standpipe with sprinklers on it. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

RE: 9/11/2001

2012-09-11 Thread George Church
Sometimes I wonder if events like that are given so some of us have the opportunity to Be heroes Do unusually nice things for people Do remarkable things. I've had so many people do such wonderful things for me that I wonder if that might be why we have cancer- so folks can rise to the

RE: Golf Ball Commodity Class

2012-09-10 Thread George Church
Take Chris with you. He may have to take it home, but their oven is already trashed. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

Re: drum drip in cold spaces

2012-09-05 Thread George Church
Todd Looks like you have the answer. If they refuse to accept it, you are off the hook. Glc Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Todd Williams t...@fpdc.com wrote: Roland, I'm not the EOR on this project, just the plebe doing the shop drawings. The EOR put very little thought

RE: drum drip in cold spaces

2012-09-04 Thread George Church
What edition of 13? 13R? applies? George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: drum drip in cold spaces

2012-09-04 Thread George Church
And as mentioned in a different manner- after draining, open the bottom valve, lift a bucket of AF solution up around it, reach in and shut the lower valve- frost proofing. Doubt the flammability matters if the brass in the valve melts and allows the solution out in advance of water from the

Re: Attic Remote Area

2012-09-03 Thread George Church
We just protected an OH2 store with a #22 tank and a pair of single phase #20 pumps when 3 phase wasn't available. Cheaper than a pressure tank(s). Glc Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Cahill, Christopher ccah...@burnsmcd.com wrote: Well I don't know how you get 30 minutes

RE: Antifreeze Update

2012-08-28 Thread George Church
Dewayne, I had a short off-Forum debate with a friend when the AFSA release came out- citing we MUST address known problems when we're aware of them. I would debate that all day if I had the time. On a parallel of when TIA's apply- CMS uses the 1999 edition on a certain date for nursing homes

RE: Antifreeze Update

2012-08-28 Thread George Church
-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:18 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Antifreeze Update Dewayne, I had a short off-Forum debate with a friend when the AFSA release came out

RE: Antifreeze Update

2012-08-28 Thread George Church
-5556 Cell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:39 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Antifreeze Update If you were in Rod's

RE: Supervised vales in pump room

2012-08-27 Thread George Church
Imagine adding up all the years of experience, in various locales and different points of view (contractor, AHJ, mfrs, insurance, FPEs, etc) that are applied to situations like yours? P R I C E L E S S Makes the membership dues of AFSA seem trivial in comparisonyes, it's that time of

RE: Ventilation for diesel driven fire pump room

2012-08-24 Thread George Church
I'd agree, FWIW. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org]

RE: Remote Area Question

2012-08-23 Thread George Church
Another thing to consider is that, while prone to awsh$t moments like the rest of us and a bit over 30 yrs old, Roland does have one of those MD FPE wall plaques, along with some TC experience which helps when you try to read between the lines. Oh, and there's that Standards Council thing, I

RE: Sprinklers in Non Combustible Stair Shaft

2012-08-21 Thread George Church
So assuming there IS an intermediate landing, you're to protect below it. If there ISN'T an intermediate landing, then you'd be protecting under the 2nd floor landing. If the area under the landing is walled off, you don't need to protect it (assuming noncombustible construction in a stair

RE: Flange Question

2012-08-20 Thread George Church
Maybe with SS304 1/4 bolts? George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Residential FM approved heads

2012-08-15 Thread George Church
I thought there were one or two, since about a year ago I pointed out in an RFI questioning the need for FM-Apvd resi hds, that they cut our selection from 14 to 2 or 3 sprinklers. Did you look in the FM Approval Guide? I don't recall if I looked on mfr sites or FM. George L. Church, Jr.,

web site about Lubrizol - Blazemaster - Issues

2012-08-09 Thread George Church
Jim, looks like things will be heating up this summer. For better or worse, this guy wants to get his point across to a larger audience, sounds frustrated enough to do battle in public if that is what it takes. I gotta admire that unless proven looney. Doesn't sound like it. Glc Sent from my

Re: 13R pump listing

2012-08-09 Thread George Church
Rod, Go back and read Tim's citation. 2007 is our PA adopted version. In it, no reason non-22 tanks store FP water to unlisted pump from Lowes to 13R system with no connection to domestic. Don't have to like it, can change it in a later edition, but until PA adopts an edition requiring NFPA 20

RE: Chubb Insurance Company Fall 2012 Hands On Fire Protection Seminars

2012-08-02 Thread George Church
Liberty Mutual offers similar, on behalf of Mr. Hague who has contributed much to the advancement of NFPA standards in his career. And you don't have to go to NJ! :) George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

RE: Stage/platform

2012-07-25 Thread George Church
Well, I'd qualify that- With some of us, it's a person standing and speaking and waving their arms. Don't feel singled out Steve, BC is right there with you. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

RE: Draftsperson test exercise

2012-07-19 Thread George Church
Just so I know if I had a shot at a job- and I did pass ASCOA's Bennett Test of Mechanical Comprehension, etc. back in 74- It's noon, right? Checking the ability to handle a fact given in English, despite induced cognitive dissonance of a stopped or wrong clock. George L. Church, Jr., CET  

RE: ESFR within 7 foot sphere of unit heater

2012-07-05 Thread George Church
And unit heaters aren't as typical in big box ESFR DC's as Cambridge units. Like roof fans, skylights, etc- move em to miss us, we're not adding 4 90's in the BL's. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

Re: Head replacement on pipe sched

2012-07-02 Thread George Church
I cant think of any reasons why the 13-96 reqmnt for QR in LH wouldn't apply or be a problem. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 2, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Morey, Mike mo...@bmwc.com wrote: Educational is classified as LH, if you're replacing all the heads they should definitely be QR, the explanitory

RE: Reliable Power

2012-07-02 Thread George Church
Some good points, but I wouldn't hold my breath on reading the reality posted in a public spot. Even the family of a US Govt employee who was killed my US-govt issued armament, let alone Congress, can't get a straight answer on how that happened. While I'd love to see the summary of a lot of

RE: Calculating Pressure Reducing Valves

2012-06-22 Thread George Church
Just south of Wilkes-Barre, north of Blue Ball... Mr Leyton knows more about PA than most SoCal'ers. Nice chuckle on a TGIF! George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original

RE: Heads Under Duct

2012-06-22 Thread George Church
I'd agree. Maybe this strategy would work; a veteran FM field engineer looking at a round duct and the possible need for dropping a sprinkler under it: Is the building going to burn down because of it, or the lack of it? Since this particular duct was a short run above a corridor between Truckers

RE: Grocery Store commodity classifications

2012-06-22 Thread George Church
Oddly enough, retail fireworks in a display setting are only an OH2 risk- we did substantial research into our first one, have done several for a guy with a chain, and since he only stores 6' high in the back, it's all OH2. Sure we know we're only going to control a non-firecracker fire,

RE: Drop out ceiling tile area

2012-06-14 Thread George Church
Todd, I've never heard of any restriction on the size of an area with meltouts. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From:

RE: Radio Station Broadcast Studios

2012-06-14 Thread George Church
I don't think Travelers sells special sprinklers, but insurance coverage. Flex drops? Bottle of clean agent? Certainly not the first radio station with A.S. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE   570-837-6335 fax

RE: 2007 12.2.1 Small hose stations

2012-06-11 Thread George Church
You could add a system of heat or smokes for early warning; you could upgrade density or remote area size, for equal or better protection. Think outside the box if you're using Equivalency. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842

dry grid prohibition

2012-06-11 Thread George Church
Would anyone know when dry grids were taken out of NFPA 13? My recollection is mid 1980's, but don't have a copy to check. We've encountered a dry-pipe system installed circa 1999, purported to be in accordance with NFPA 13- 1994 according to the signature of a NICET Level IV, complete with

RE: dry grid prohibition

2012-06-11 Thread George Church
Of George Church Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 7:56 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: dry grid prohibition Would anyone know when dry grids were taken out of NFPA 13? My recollection is mid 1980's, but don't have a copy to check. We've encountered a dry-pipe system installed

RE: RTI

2012-06-07 Thread George Church
The amount of significant digits we work to in various aspects is quite varied. Some folks believe calc programs down to the .001 level when it all comes down to a gauge bouncing around in a variable water supply with uncontrolled changes. Yet we worry about inches in other areas. George L.

RE: RPZ for a dedicated private underground fire mains having fire hydrants

2012-06-07 Thread George Church
In a planter it'll pick up all the fertilizer, dog poop, and whatever else is soluble. Assume the FD will dump and flush their tank- likely as much water as the system took to put it out before they got there. George L. Church, Jr., CET   Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407,

RE: RPZ for a dedicated private underground fire mains having fire hydrants

2012-06-07 Thread George Church
Makes you wonder what we did before all the DCDA, RPZ, etc. Oh, that's right- a single check, sometimes with a cheater meter, and/or an ALV or DPV. Gosh, remember how many people used to get sick and/or die from our sprinkler systems before we added $1200 to $10,000 per system for REAL BFPs?

RE: BFP's Addendum

2012-06-06 Thread George Church
Great point, Bob- imagine 8 UG, 8 riser, later on a 1 AF connection for a one or two head AF system off, say a 4 CM. Wouldn't be 1 RPZ? Love it- the RPZ separating the non-toxic AF from our stinky sprinkler water with soot in it (just look at my dress!). Sure today's premix is tomorrow's

RE: BFP's Addendum

2012-06-06 Thread George Church
Fire code official in a Pgh, PA suburb circa 1981 used to circle the BFP on EVERY submittal and note Not required by Fire Code Official. Believe years later a brother in law parallel to this story got caught, and of course the very savvy code guy had sterile hands. We'd talk after a jobsite

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