RE: 13R ATTIC Protection
Actually Areas Outside of the dwelling unit In 13R Refer to Occupied areas, and do NOT require areas, not otherwise required to be protected in a 13R system, to be protected. Similarly because you have to protect an area per 13 in a 13R building, does NOT require it comply with all of 13, such as Hose or concealed combustible space protection. I understand how in So. Cal, a LH attic is No big Deal that's not always the case in the rest of the country, where Dry, Antifreeze or pre-action systems would be required. We find in cold country that the drywall is always cheaper, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of on-going maint. Testing and inspection of another entire system. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:14 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection Haven't seen an unprotected attic with a 13R system absent draft-stopping before, but have done at least 3 or 4 projects with 13R and the attic sprinklered in lieu of draft-stopping. It's no big deal - light hazard, same as it ever was. It's one of those areas outside the dwelling units that gets protected per 13. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection This is just part of an ongoing discussion with a AHJ for a Hampton INN, but how many of you have seen 13R used with no draft stopping of the attics, or only every 3000 SF, but the concealed combustible spaces unprotected? You're talking about Chapter 7, section 717 Draft stopping in IBC right? They are installing draft stopping in the attic's, so then a 13R system is OK. It's only if you want to eliminate the draft stopping that a 903.3.1.1 (13) system is required(717.4.2 Exception 3) or a 903.3.1.2 (13R) with concealed combustible spaces protected. (717.4.2 exception 4) Those of you that work under the IBC may want to get familiar with section 717 especially if you bid 13R work. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: 13R ATTIC Protection
Right - I mean to say that if you VOLUNTARILY sprinkler the attic, as you might to satisfy the draft-stopping and compartmentalization provisions of the building code, THEN it becomes an area outside the dwelling unit and you protect per 13. It's consistent with the language and intent of the 13R standard. WRT to the big deal, I understand it's potentially WAY more expensive in areas subject to freezing. I meant no big deal in terms of it not being a complicated code formula and that the determination of what's required is straightforward. Obviously, cost and logistics might make draft=stopping a much more attractive alternative if you had to use anti-freeze or dry pipe, or if it meant the difference between pump/no pump. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection Actually Areas Outside of the dwelling unit In 13R Refer to Occupied areas, and do NOT require areas, not otherwise required to be protected in a 13R system, to be protected. Similarly because you have to protect an area per 13 in a 13R building, does NOT require it comply with all of 13, such as Hose or concealed combustible space protection. I understand how in So. Cal, a LH attic is No big Deal that's not always the case in the rest of the country, where Dry, Antifreeze or pre-action systems would be required. We find in cold country that the drywall is always cheaper, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of on-going maint. Testing and inspection of another entire system. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:14 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection Haven't seen an unprotected attic with a 13R system absent draft-stopping before, but have done at least 3 or 4 projects with 13R and the attic sprinklered in lieu of draft-stopping. It's no big deal - light hazard, same as it ever was. It's one of those areas outside the dwelling units that gets protected per 13. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection This is just part of an ongoing discussion with a AHJ for a Hampton INN, but how many of you have seen 13R used with no draft stopping of the attics, or only every 3000 SF, but the concealed combustible spaces unprotected? You're talking about Chapter 7, section 717 Draft stopping in IBC right? They are installing draft stopping in the attic's, so then a 13R system is OK. It's only if you want to eliminate the draft stopping that a 903.3.1.1 (13) system is required(717.4.2 Exception 3) or a 903.3.1.2 (13R) with concealed combustible spaces protected. (717.4.2 exception 4) Those of you that work under the IBC may want to get familiar with section 717 especially if you bid 13R work. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word
RE: 13R ATTIC Protection
Steve, Sprinklering the attic is not always voluntary. Some jurisdictions are requiring it At 11:49 AM 2/9/2009, you wrote: Right - I mean to say that if you VOLUNTARILY sprinkler the attic, as you might to satisfy the draft-stopping and compartmentalization provisions of the building code, THEN it becomes an area outside the dwelling unit and you protect per 13. It's consistent with the language and intent of the 13R standard. WRT to the big deal, I understand it's potentially WAY more expensive in areas subject to freezing. I meant no big deal in terms of it not being a complicated code formula and that the determination of what's required is straightforward. Obviously, cost and logistics might make draft=stopping a much more attractive alternative if you had to use anti-freeze or dry pipe, or if it meant the difference between pump/no pump. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection Actually Areas Outside of the dwelling unit In 13R Refer to Occupied areas, and do NOT require areas, not otherwise required to be protected in a 13R system, to be protected. Similarly because you have to protect an area per 13 in a 13R building, does NOT require it comply with all of 13, such as Hose or concealed combustible space protection. I understand how in So. Cal, a LH attic is No big Deal that's not always the case in the rest of the country, where Dry, Antifreeze or pre-action systems would be required. We find in cold country that the drywall is always cheaper, and that doesn't even take into account the cost of on-going maint. Testing and inspection of another entire system. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 5:14 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection Haven't seen an unprotected attic with a 13R system absent draft-stopping before, but have done at least 3 or 4 projects with 13R and the attic sprinklered in lieu of draft-stopping. It's no big deal - light hazard, same as it ever was. It's one of those areas outside the dwelling units that gets protected per 13. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection This is just part of an ongoing discussion with a AHJ for a Hampton INN, but how many of you have seen 13R used with no draft stopping of the attics, or only every 3000 SF, but the concealed combustible spaces unprotected? You're talking about Chapter 7, section 717 Draft stopping in IBC right? They are installing draft stopping in the attic's, so then a 13R system is OK. It's only if you want to eliminate the draft stopping that a 903.3.1.1 (13) system is required(717.4.2 Exception 3) or a 903.3.1.2 (13R) with concealed combustible spaces protected. (717.4.2 exception 4) Those of you that work under the IBC may want to get familiar with section 717 especially if you bid 13R work. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email
RE: 13R ATTIC Protection
This is just part of an ongoing discussion with a AHJ for a Hampton INN, but how many of you have seen 13R used with no draft stopping of the attics, or only every 3000 SF, but the concealed combustible spaces unprotected? You're talking about Chapter 7, section 717 Draft stopping in IBC right? They are installing draft stopping in the attic's, so then a 13R system is OK. It's only if you want to eliminate the draft stopping that a 903.3.1.1 (13) system is required(717.4.2 Exception 3) or a 903.3.1.2 (13R) with concealed combustible spaces protected. (717.4.2 exception 4) Those of you that work under the IBC may want to get familiar with section 717 especially if you bid 13R work. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
RE: 13R ATTIC Protection
Haven't seen an unprotected attic with a 13R system absent draft-stopping before, but have done at least 3 or 4 projects with 13R and the attic sprinklered in lieu of draft-stopping. It's no big deal - light hazard, same as it ever was. It's one of those areas outside the dwelling units that gets protected per 13. Steve Leyton Protection Design Consulting San Diego, CA -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:57 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: 13R ATTIC Protection This is just part of an ongoing discussion with a AHJ for a Hampton INN, but how many of you have seen 13R used with no draft stopping of the attics, or only every 3000 SF, but the concealed combustible spaces unprotected? You're talking about Chapter 7, section 717 Draft stopping in IBC right? They are installing draft stopping in the attic's, so then a 13R system is OK. It's only if you want to eliminate the draft stopping that a 903.3.1.1 (13) system is required(717.4.2 Exception 3) or a 903.3.1.2 (13R) with concealed combustible spaces protected. (717.4.2 exception 4) Those of you that work under the IBC may want to get familiar with section 717 especially if you bid 13R work. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3836 (20090207) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: techsupp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
