RE: Townhome - Common Areas
If there are common areas then there's an HOA, right? At least there would have to be in CA due to state Dept. of Real Estate reg's.Perhaps not in the sales contract, but possibly in the CC for the HOA? SL -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:44 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Ron Greenman Subject: Re: Townhome - Common Areas A clause in the sales contract that that owner of the adjacent unit is responsible, or that all owners that use that common area are equally responsible as in the maintenance assessments associated with HOAs. This is my opinion for a solution way out of the purview of the sprinkler contractor, and not being a lawyer I may be suggesting something that can't be done in a contract, but just a thought for legally assigning responsibility that could be explored. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 10:41 AM Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > I get it, but the "fee simple unit" extends beyond the fee simple unit > so... > > SL > > -Original Message- > From: John Irwin [mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 10:33 AM > To: Steve Leyton ; Kyle.Montgomery < > kmontgom...@aerofire.com>; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > And if some random person breaks a sprinkler inside the mail room, > who's responsible for the repair? This is my issue with having > sprinklers outside the fee simple unit. > > John Irwin > Director of Construction > Quick Response Fire Protection > Cell: 727-282-9243 > > > "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of > low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin > > -Original Message- > From: Steve Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:31 PM > To: Kyle.Montgomery ; > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: John Irwin > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > Yes. You have living space associated with a particular unit over the > subject utility occupancy, so I would protect it with the system from > that particular unit. > > Steve L. > > -Original Message- > From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:26 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin < > jir...@quickresponsefl.com> > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > Are you saying to just extend the system from the adjacent home into > that area to protect it? As opposed to providing another lead-in? Is > that an option? > > -Kyle M > > -Original Message- > From: Sprinklerforum > On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:45 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin < > jir...@quickresponsefl.com> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you > have living space over a utility space like a garage or trash > enclosure, I would say that accessory structure becomes a part of the > dwelling unit associated > with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you > would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't > require protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as > for a garage in 13R. > > > Steve Leyton > > (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text > corruptions.) > > > > Original message > From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum < > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: John Irwin > Subject: Townhome - Common Areas > > We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings > are small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room > (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an > additional expense because the units being protected are fee simple > and each has it's own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common > rooms would require additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and > combustible concealed protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? > > As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms > have exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? > > > > John Irwin > Quick Response Fire Protection > > > "The bitterness of poor quality
Re: Townhome - Common Areas
A clause in the sales contract that that owner of the adjacent unit is responsible, or that all owners that use that common area are equally responsible as in the maintenance assessments associated with HOAs. This is my opinion for a solution way out of the purview of the sprinkler contractor, and not being a lawyer I may be suggesting something that can't be done in a contract, but just a thought for legally assigning responsibility that could be explored. On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 10:41 AM Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > I get it, but the "fee simple unit" extends beyond the fee simple unit > so... > > SL > > -Original Message- > From: John Irwin [mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 10:33 AM > To: Steve Leyton ; Kyle.Montgomery < > kmontgom...@aerofire.com>; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > And if some random person breaks a sprinkler inside the mail room, who's > responsible for the repair? This is my issue with having sprinklers outside > the fee simple unit. > > John Irwin > Director of Construction > Quick Response Fire Protection > Cell: 727-282-9243 > > > "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin > > -Original Message- > From: Steve Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:31 PM > To: Kyle.Montgomery ; > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: John Irwin > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > Yes. You have living space associated with a particular unit over the > subject utility occupancy, so I would protect it with the system from that > particular unit. > > Steve L. > > -Original Message- > From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:26 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin < > jir...@quickresponsefl.com> > Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > Are you saying to just extend the system from the adjacent home into that > area to protect it? As opposed to providing another lead-in? Is that an > option? > > -Kyle M > > -Original Message- > From: Sprinklerforum On > Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:45 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin < > jir...@quickresponsefl.com> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Townhome - Common Areas > > That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you have > living space over a utility space like a garage or trash enclosure, I would > say that accessory structure becomes a part of the dwelling unit associated > with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you > would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't require > protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as for a garage > in 13R. > > > Steve Leyton > > (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text > corruptions.) > > > > Original message > From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum < > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Cc: John Irwin > Subject: Townhome - Common Areas > > We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings are > small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room > (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an additional > expense because the units being protected are fee simple and each has it's > own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common rooms would require > additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and combustible concealed > protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? > > As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms have > exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? > > > > John Irwin > Quick Response Fire Protection > > > "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low > price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin > > ___ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= >
RE: Townhome - Common Areas
I get it, but the "fee simple unit" extends beyond the fee simple unit so... SL -Original Message- From: John Irwin [mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 10:33 AM To: Steve Leyton ; Kyle.Montgomery ; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas And if some random person breaks a sprinkler inside the mail room, who's responsible for the repair? This is my issue with having sprinklers outside the fee simple unit. John Irwin Director of Construction Quick Response Fire Protection Cell: 727-282-9243 "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin -Original Message- From: Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:31 PM To: Kyle.Montgomery ; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas Yes. You have living space associated with a particular unit over the subject utility occupancy, so I would protect it with the system from that particular unit. Steve L. -Original Message- From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:26 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas Are you saying to just extend the system from the adjacent home into that area to protect it? As opposed to providing another lead-in? Is that an option? -Kyle M -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Townhome - Common Areas That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you have living space over a utility space like a garage or trash enclosure, I would say that accessory structure becomes a part of the dwelling unit associated with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't require protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as for a garage in 13R. Steve Leyton (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.) Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin Subject: Townhome - Common Areas We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings are small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an additional expense because the units being protected are fee simple and each has it's own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common rooms would require additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and combustible concealed protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms have exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? John Irwin Quick Response Fire Protection "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Townhome - Common Areas
Yes. You have living space associated with a particular unit over the subject utility occupancy, so I would protect it with the system from that particular unit. Steve L. -Original Message- From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:26 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin Subject: RE: Townhome - Common Areas Are you saying to just extend the system from the adjacent home into that area to protect it? As opposed to providing another lead-in? Is that an option? -Kyle M -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Townhome - Common Areas That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you have living space over a utility space like a garage or trash enclosure, I would say that accessory structure becomes a part of the dwelling unit associated with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't require protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as for a garage in 13R. Steve Leyton (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.) Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin Subject: Townhome - Common Areas We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings are small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an additional expense because the units being protected are fee simple and each has it's own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common rooms would require additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and combustible concealed protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms have exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? John Irwin Quick Response Fire Protection "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Townhome - Common Areas
Are you saying to just extend the system from the adjacent home into that area to protect it? As opposed to providing another lead-in? Is that an option? -Kyle M -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:45 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton ; John Irwin Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Townhome - Common Areas That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you have living space over a utility space like a garage or trash enclosure, I would say that accessory structure becomes a part of the dwelling unit associated with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't require protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as for a garage in 13R. Steve Leyton (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.) Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin Subject: Townhome - Common Areas We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings are small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an additional expense because the units being protected are fee simple and each has it's own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common rooms would require additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and combustible concealed protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms have exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? John Irwin Quick Response Fire Protection "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org=DwICAg=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A=faLC6Gr2aXcLulFYub3ZQSbhFvUDwniBMdSL2deInFQ=HfI4Lqejjh6B80Gz6TCV8T5UsQAvWcPuFsupz6bJO14= ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Townhome - Common Areas
That last part made it easy for me to firm a quick opinion. If you have living space over a utility space like a garage or trash enclosure, I would say that accessory structure becomes a part of the dwelling unit associated with that terrace or patio space. Protect the trash enclosure as you would a garage. If you are in a state or jurisdiction that doesn't require protection of garages per the exception in13D, then protect as for a garage in 13R. Steve Leyton (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.) Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum Date: 1/27/21 6:48 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: John Irwin Subject: Townhome - Common Areas We're protecting (4) rows of townhomes per NFPA 13D. Between buildings are small common areas such as trash storage (132sqft) and mail room (260sqft). Providing protection in these rooms would come at an additional expense because the units being protected are fee simple and each has it's own lead-in. Adding sprinklers to these small common rooms would require additional lead ins, meters, light hazard and combustible concealed protection. Do these rooms need to be protected? As an added twist, the townhomes that immediately abut these rooms have exterior terraces on the ROOFs of these rooms. Is this a factor? John Irwin Quick Response Fire Protection "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
