RE: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings
Thank you everyone who has responded. I have a lot of good info. Love the Forum... SL -Original Message- From: Dennis Wilson [mailto:dwil...@blackhawksprinklers.com] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2020 10:05 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton Subject: RE: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings 1. There are several manufacturers of DI fittings. We currently are using Smith-Cooper but they merged with Anvil late last year and have been trying to work out details since. Ward has been trying to bring out a line for years but as far as I know it is not done yet. Tyco used to use Sprink Fitting when we first started using them but they had issues so we switched. There is a few other foreign companies but we have never messed with them. 2. SCI branded ductile iron threaded fittings are UL Listed and FM Approved at 500 psi. Rated to 300 WSP. Castings conform to ASTM A536. Fitting dimensions conform to ASME B16.3. Bushings and plugs conform to ASME B16.14. NPT threads on all fittings conform to ASME B1.20.1. 3. I believe we started using them in the mid to late 80's but didn't become main stream with us until in the early 90's. 4. Cost wise they run about 20-25% less. Cast & malleable vary back and forth on which is cheaper depending on size and popularity. 5. It all has to do with the amount of steel that is added to the cast iron base. Cast iron can crack or break fairly easily but it seals very well. Malleable iron with more steel doesn't break as easy but can be overtightened and cause leaks. Ductile iron with even more steel is almost impossible to break. It can stretch the most of all of them which can cause leaks but is the most forgiving and they generally have a much higher pressure rating. 6. We have been using the Ductile iron fittings for the majority of my 40 years with the company very successfully with very few leak issues. I have not seen anything better yet. Lee Berryman - Vice President Blackhawk Sprinklers, Inc 319-266-7721 Office 319-231-6614 Cell -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:05 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton Subject: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings Forumites: We've been asked to compare cast, malleable and ductile threaded fittings on a public project. Malleable and cast have are tabled materials in Chapter 6 (Chapter 7, 2019 ed.) of NFPA 13 and I'm aware of at least one manufacturer of listed ductile threaded fittings. Who can answer the following: 1. Besides Anvil, who else manufactures threaded ductile? 2. What is the UL test standard # for threaded metallic fittings? 3. When did the first listed ductile threaded fittings come on market? 4. Where does ductile fall on the cost scale compared to cast and malleable? 5. What are pros and cons (if any of ductile) compared to the longstanding cast and malleable standards? 6. What's your preference between the three if any and why? Thanks in advance, Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.orgdata=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C1de99a3575464c47c49408d881a4a155%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C0%7C637401891382992055%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=4Htb1Kmv4z%2Bo4ouBxlURv2txxDSoDy5hNb5SzQ4Zvcs%3Dreserved=0 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings
1. There are several manufacturers of DI fittings. We currently are using Smith-Cooper but they merged with Anvil late last year and have been trying to work out details since. Ward has been trying to bring out a line for years but as far as I know it is not done yet. Tyco used to use Sprink Fitting when we first started using them but they had issues so we switched. There is a few other foreign companies but we have never messed with them. 2. SCI branded ductile iron threaded fittings are UL Listed and FM Approved at 500 psi. Rated to 300 WSP. Castings conform to ASTM A536. Fitting dimensions conform to ASME B16.3. Bushings and plugs conform to ASME B16.14. NPT threads on all fittings conform to ASME B1.20.1. 3. I believe we started using them in the mid to late 80's but didn't become main stream with us until in the early 90's. 4. Cost wise they run about 20-25% less. Cast & malleable vary back and forth on which is cheaper depending on size and popularity. 5. It all has to do with the amount of steel that is added to the cast iron base. Cast iron can crack or break fairly easily but it seals very well. Malleable iron with more steel doesn't break as easy but can be overtightened and cause leaks. Ductile iron with even more steel is almost impossible to break. It can stretch the most of all of them which can cause leaks but is the most forgiving and they generally have a much higher pressure rating. 6. We have been using the Ductile iron fittings for the majority of my 40 years with the company very successfully with very few leak issues. I have not seen anything better yet. Lee Berryman - Vice President Blackhawk Sprinklers, Inc 319-266-7721 Office 319-231-6614 Cell -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:05 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton Subject: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings Forumites: We've been asked to compare cast, malleable and ductile threaded fittings on a public project. Malleable and cast have are tabled materials in Chapter 6 (Chapter 7, 2019 ed.) of NFPA 13 and I'm aware of at least one manufacturer of listed ductile threaded fittings. Who can answer the following: 1. Besides Anvil, who else manufactures threaded ductile? 2. What is the UL test standard # for threaded metallic fittings? 3. When did the first listed ductile threaded fittings come on market? 4. Where does ductile fall on the cost scale compared to cast and malleable? 5. What are pros and cons (if any of ductile) compared to the longstanding cast and malleable standards? 6. What's your preference between the three if any and why? Thanks in advance, Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.orgdata=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C1de99a3575464c47c49408d881a4a155%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C0%7C637401891382992055%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=4Htb1Kmv4z%2Bo4ouBxlURv2txxDSoDy5hNb5SzQ4Zvcs%3Dreserved=0 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings
Found this: Standard for Gasketed Joints for Ductile-Iron Pipe and Fittings for Fire Protection ServiceUL Standard Standard 194, Edition 6Edition Date: November 30, 2005 Interesting topic Steve. On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 10:05 AM Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > Forumites: > > We've been asked to compare cast, malleable and ductile threaded fittings > on a public project. Malleable and cast have are tabled materials in > Chapter 6 (Chapter 7, 2019 ed.) of NFPA 13 and I'm aware of at least one > manufacturer of listed ductile threaded fittings. Who can answer the > following: > > 1. Besides Anvil, who else manufactures threaded ductile? > 2. What is the UL test standard # for threaded metallic fittings? > 3. When did the first listed ductile threaded fittings come on market? > 4. Where does ductile fall on the cost scale compared to cast and > malleable? > 5. What are pros and cons (if any of ductile) compared to the > longstanding cast and malleable standards? > 6. What's your preference between the three if any and why? > > Thanks in advance, > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > ___ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings
My unscientific answers below. 1. Besides Anvil, who else manufactures threaded ductile? I don't know where TYCO gets them from but my previous employer got theirs from TYCO 2. What is the UL test standard # for threaded metallic fittings? 3. When did the first listed ductile threaded fittings come on market? I've been in the industry since 1978 and it seems like they were around then. 4. Where does ductile fall on the cost scale compared to cast and malleable? I think the ductile were slightly cheaper than cast but that could have been their pricing structure with TYCO vs. who they got the cast from. 5. What are pros and cons (if any of ductile) compared to the longstanding cast and malleable standards? They went to ductile as a company standard because the instances of cracked fittings and leaks dropped to almost zero. 6. What's your preference between the three if any and why? I've never installed them so I couldn't say. As an added disclaimer my previous employer did not use threaded pipe or fittings above 1" unless specified and they couldn't break the spec. 1½" and up was all grooved, never used 1¼" because in most cases the 1¼" grooved fittings were more same price or more expensive than the 1½". Also unless you have a really good fab shop welded 1¼" lines change directions several times in 21', and end up looking like crap in a large open area.. -Original Message- From: Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Steve Leyton Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2020 11:05 am Subject: UL Test Standard for threaded FP fittings Forumites: We've been asked to compare cast, malleable and ductile threaded fittings on a public project. Malleable and cast have are tabled materials in Chapter 6 (Chapter 7, 2019 ed.) of NFPA 13 and I'm aware of at least one manufacturer of listed ductile threaded fittings. Who can answer the following: 1. Besides Anvil, who else manufactures threaded ductile? 2. What is the UL test standard # for threaded metallic fittings? 3. When did the first listed ductile threaded fittings come on market? 4. Where does ductile fall on the cost scale compared to cast and malleable? 5. What are pros and cons (if any of ductile) compared to the longstanding cast and malleable standards? 6. What's your preference between the three if any and why? Thanks in advance, Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
