Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 04:28:07PM -0600, John Stanton wrote: > Samuel R. Neff wrote: > >I'm not sure I see added value in incorporating procedural SQL in an > >embedded database like SQLite or DeviceSQL. Isn't the easily extensible > >mechanism that SQLite has for creating custom functions in

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread John Stanton
Samuel R. Neff wrote: -Original Message- From: John Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 3:55 PM To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL ... is it not directly comparable to DeviceSQL unless the external compiler handles not only SQL

RE: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Samuel R. Neff
-Original Message- From: John Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 3:55 PM To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL ... is it not directly comparable to DeviceSQL unless the external compiler handles not only SQL but also PL/SQL

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread John Stanton
@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL Importance: High Case in point: A new opcode has been added for the pending 3.5.4 release. And this caused many of the other opcodes to be automatically renumbered. A serialization created for 3.5.3 has little hope of running on 3.5.4. -- D. Richard Hipp

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread John Stanton
Dennis, your application may not be a microwave oven but it does appear to be "deeply embedded" as opposed to a general purpose DB server which handles generic queries. I was aware of the runtime only version of Sqlite, but is it not directly comparable to DeviceSQL unless the external

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Steven Fisher
On 14-Dec-2007, at 5:41 AM, Clay Dowling wrote: I have to say, this discussion has been very informative, although probably not in a way that would make mr Weick happy. I've certainly learned a lot about encirq that tells me what I need to know about doing business with them. Same thought

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Dennis Cote
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Cote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It could be any application that uses a fixed set of predetermined SQL statements to perform its operations. My primary application does exactly that using SQLite with all statements prepared and cached as needed. It runs on a

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread drh
"Noah Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why can't new OP codes be simply added to the end, so that the > serializations will always work? > We do not often add new opcodes. The usual change is to alter the meaning and operation of existing opcodes. We also delete existing opcodes about as

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 04:20:15PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The EXPLAIN option generates human-readable assembly. We > use EXPLAIN extensively when debugging and enhancing. Yes, but there's no assembler for EXPLAIN output, is there? Also, the only way to deal with EXPLAIN is to step

RE: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Noah Hart
Why can't new OP codes be simply added to the end, so that the serializations will always work? Noah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:20 AM To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL Importance: High

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread drh
Nicolas Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 03:38:17PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > That would be the Serialized Statement Extension, SSE. > > The SSE provides the programmer with two new APIs: > > Would it be useful to generate human-readable VDBE "assemply"? >

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 10:10:04AM -0600, Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 03:38:17PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > That would be the Serialized Statement Extension, SSE. > > The SSE provides the programmer with two new APIs: > > Would it be useful to generate

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 03:38:17PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > That would be the Serialized Statement Extension, SSE. > The SSE provides the programmer with two new APIs: Would it be useful to generate human-readable VDBE "assemply"? Or, how do you develop parser changes that involve new

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread drh
Dennis Cote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It could be any application that uses a fixed set of predetermined SQL > statements to perform its operations. My primary application does > exactly that using SQLite with all statements prepared and cached as > needed. It runs on a standard PC under

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Shawn Wilsher
On Dec 14, 2007 10:38 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That would be the Serialized Statement Extension, SSE. > The SSE provides the programmer with two new APIs: > >int sqlite3_serialize(sqlite3_stmt*, void**, int*); >int sqlite3_deserialize(sqlite3*, void*, int, sqlite3_stmt**); > > The

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread drh
Dennis Cote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I can imagine that a version of Sqlite which does not include its SQL > > compiler and which uses precompiled VDBE code would provide similar > > functionality to DeviceSQL, particularly if the Sqlite compiler were > > extended to generate VDBE from

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Dennis Cote
John Stanton wrote: DeviceSQL is not suitable for general purpose SQL processing, unlike Sqlite, and should only be compared as an alternative in deeply embedded applications so the only useful comparison is one which looks like a cell phone, microwave oven or a TV set top box. The

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-14 Thread Clay Dowling
I have to say, this discussion has been very informative, although probably not in a way that would make mr Weick happy. I've certainly learned a lot about encirq that tells me what I need to know about doing business with them. Clay steveweick wrote: > > Good idea... I'll pass it along to the

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread John Stanton
Testing only finds bugs, it does not guarantee accuracy. Careful design however can establish accuracy, and to verify that methodology requires examination of the source code. James Steward wrote: steveweick wrote: Do you need to read the code to verify reliability as your next few

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread James Steward
steveweick wrote: Do you need to read the code to verify reliability as your next few sentences seems to imply? For that to be true, the reader would have to be able to spot bugs through inspection. While that is certainly one way to spot bugs, I seriously doubt that any shop would rely on code

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread John Stanton
I unfortunately missed the Encirq webinar thanks to a project commitment but have taken the time to download the Encirq demo and try to make good the loss. It has some user examples in source code which give an idea of how it functions, but the information on the product is sparse so it was

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread steveweick
Good idea... I'll pass it along to the right folks. Meanwhile, if anyone has further questions or comments, please feel free to write me here (if they think the group would be interested) or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve I would like to recommend that Encriq create a forum or mailing list of

RE: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread Birt, Jeffrey
I concur. Quite an interesting marketing strategy; Join you competitors' mailing lists and trash talk them. LOL -Original Message- From: dcharno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:30 PM To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL I would like

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread dcharno
I would like to recommend that Encriq create a forum or mailing list of their own for those who are interesting in learning more. For me, what might be an interesting product is quickly being overshadowed by this thread. You raise some interesting points. There is nothing secret about

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread steveweick
Hi James, You raise some interesting points. There is nothing secret about the benchmarks. We will make the code that was used to run benchmarks available to anyone who wants to see it and verify results. If you want to find a third party to verify, be my guest. The benchmark report goes into

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread James Steward
steveweick wrote: Richard has it right this time. Today DeviceSQL uses no SQLite code. One of the things we might consider is bolting the SQLite parser/front end to our table engine, in theory to get the both worlds. Just an idea at the moment. Such an interesting discussion to be

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread steveweick
Richard has it right this time. Today DeviceSQL uses no SQLite code. One of the things we might consider is bolting the SQLite parser/front end to our table engine, in theory to get the both worlds. Just an idea at the moment. Steve D. Richard Hipp wrote: > > Joe Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread steveweick
As shown another thread, Richard has his facts wrong. See http://www.nabble.com/Improving-performance-of-SQLite.-Anyone-heard-of-DeviceSQL--to14280006.html#a14317195 Steve A. Pagaltzis wrote: > > * John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-12-12 17:55]: >> In general claims of "20x" or even "5x"

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-13 Thread steveweick
I hope this is not a double post, but this was answered in another thread. See http://www.nabble.com/Improving-performance-of-SQLite.-Anyone-heard-of-DeviceSQL--to14280006.html#a14317195 D. Richard Hipp wrote: > > John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I received an email promoting a

RE: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread RB Smissaert
Couldn't find anywhere how much this costs. Newsgroup search shows nil. Has anybody downloaded and tried the demo? RBS -Original Message- From: Joe Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 17:10 To: sqlite-users@sqlite.org Subject: Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL Be careful about

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread drh
Joe Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Be careful about speculative comments. > > For all anyone knows, said product could use SQLite internally with > a couple of proprietary optimizations here and there that may make it > faster in specific cases. > > The sqlite public domain license would

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread Joe Wilson
Be careful about speculative comments. For all anyone knows, said product could use SQLite internally with a couple of proprietary optimizations here and there that may make it faster in specific cases. The sqlite public domain license would allow that sort of thing.

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread John Stanton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I received an email promoting a DeviceSQL web presentation. It specifically targets Sqlite and promises 5X performance. If you view their web presentation and/or try out Encirq's products, I would be very interested to hear

Re: [sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread drh
John Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I received an email promoting a DeviceSQL web presentation. It > specifically targets Sqlite and promises 5X performance. > If you view their web presentation and/or try out Encirq's products, I would be very interested to hear your impressions. Even

[sqlite] DeviceSQL

2007-12-12 Thread John Stanton
I received an email promoting a DeviceSQL web presentation. It specifically targets Sqlite and promises 5X performance. For those interested - DeviceSQL vs. SQLite: Which Gets You the Most Efficient Embedded Database? DATE: Thursday, December 13th, 2007 TIME: Noon